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Old 05-06-2010, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Red Hook Brooklyn-winter Derby Line Vermont-summer
281 posts, read 1,232,637 times
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I have just started reading a rather large biography of Robert Moses.I am only in my 30s and was not really aware of all the projects he created and had completed in NYC,Westchester and LI. For those who don't know he is responsible for most of the highways and parkways in and around NYC and several bridges as well.He was arcitect of most of NYCs current infrastructure.
My question is probably for those a little older than me.In this book which is a hard long read the man is equal parts genius and monster.Building things at the expense of thriving neighborhoods,using eminent domain to evict uncooperative occupants of places his plans were set to run through. He comes across as equal parts genius and monster yet he continued his building of roads parks etc for almost 50 years.He also allegedly caused both the Dodgers and Giants to leave NY.The Dodgers allegedly wanted to replace Ebbets Field with a new facility at Atlantic and Flatbush but Moses stood in the way as he had other ideas for the property.Whatever that was especially since the same area is now 50 years later being built as an arena/stadium for the Nets.
Anyway what was the general opinions of New Yorkers back in the day.Was Robert Moses good or bad for New York and it's suburbs or a visionary? How did he manage to stay in charge of the Parks department for so long.Were any of you out there directly affected by any of his projects? One paricular one that comes to mind is when he put The Gowanus Expwy right down 3rd Avenue which was a commercial avenue instead of 2nd avenue which wasn't? This project (the gowanus expwy) cut Red Hook off from the rest of Brooklyn probably contributing to that areas problems.What can anyone tell me? Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,255,339 times
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You sould also read The Death and Life of Great American Cities to get the other side of the story.

Robert Moses, in my opinion, was guilty of many crimes against the city, but the greatest was his contempt for the subways. He was man obsessed by the automobile and while some highways and bridges were needed, the transportation problems of the can never be solve by cars alone. His solution? Bulldoze the whole of central Manhattan to build a freeway. Mercifully, he was stopped before he could do it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,239 posts, read 23,970,047 times
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Nowhere is evidence of the good and the evil of Robert Moses more apparent than in The Bronx.

He destroyed wonderful neighborhoods with The Cross Bronx Expressway and beautiful natural ecosystems and parks with the parkways going up into Westchester.
Cross Bronx Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bronx River Parkway runs right up through one of the most beautiful parks in the city ! There was a beautiful lake connected to The Bronx River near the corner of Pelham Parkway North and Bronx Park East.It was drained to build the Bronx River Parkway !

Interestingly though,many of the nicest neighborhoods( Bedford Park,Mosholu Parkway,Pelham Parkway,Morris Park,Pelham Gardens) in The Bronx today are along and just off of the Mosholu/Pelham Parkway corridor which also bisects the borough from West to East but in a beautiful,human way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/re.../17living.html
These neighborhoods hung in there in the 70's,80's and early 90's when the rest of the borough was burning and crumbling and are still very pleasant,vibrant neighborhoods.One has to wonder if they would have fared so well without the beautiful roadways with their vast green spaces and trees.
Pelham Parkway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mosholu Parkway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very ironic that that the same person could have conceived and executed such vastly different roadways with such vastly different results within a few miles of each other.

He was around for so long that he almost had time to destroy the good things that he himself had done.Supposedly,in the 1950's, he came up with a plan to turn the Mosholu /Pelham Parkway system( late 30's) into a much wider, limited access highway( like The Cross Bronx) by eliminating all the green space and trees to make way for the traffic lanes ! Luckily,it didn't happen because environmentalists went berserk.

Too bad his design sense got worse over the years instead of getting better or at least staying the same.NYC would be a much more beautiful and livable place if more of the roadways looked like Pelham Parkway/Mosholu Parkway instead of like The Cross Bronx, Gowanus and BQE.

Maybe some kind of megalomania set in after his early, more human successes and he just became obsessed with remaking everything no matter what the cost.

Last edited by bluedog2; 05-06-2010 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:30 PM
 
33,363 posts, read 46,784,531 times
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funny enough is that while robert moses was obsessed with building all these highways, he never learned to drive. he had a chauffeur drive him around for most of his adult life.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:41 PM
 
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He really messed up the Bronx with the Cross Bronx Expressway which ended up displacing so many people and ruining formerly wonderful neighborhoods. He also created so many of the problems that Nassau and Suffolk Counties are facing right now with his designs for their infrastructure.

If I recall correctly, the Ric Burns New York City documentary had an excellent episode about Robert Moses and answers many of your questions about how he acquired so much power.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:12 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,836,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctovt View Post
I
My question is probably for those a little older than me.In this book which is a hard long read the man is equal parts genius and monster.Anyway what was the general opinions of New Yorkers back in the day. Thanks.
I actually work with some 60 something year old life long Bronx residents that now live in Riverdale. They had to move from areas that the Cross Bronx Expressway now runs through. They were kids at the time or at least under legal age. They don't remember it as being traumatic. Maybe because they were young. They said that they lived in crappy tenements and that Riverdale was being built up at the time, and they all just moved to much better modern apt complexes, which they all still live in today. They married and got their own apts, sometimes in the same complex or nearby. Most of the apts turning coop, which they still live in. They don't really have any bad opinions of Robert Moses, or really none at all.

Some of them have pictures on their facebook pages of the old areas, and of the then new complexes that they moved to with other friends and relatives. Pictures of them just having fun as young people in both areas.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,470,644 times
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Putting the Gowanus Expressway down Third Avenue in Brooklyn was as close to a no-brainer as anyone could've managed. There had been an elevated line running along Third, and the original highway made use of the el structure. (Things have changed in the years since).

As to the Brooklyn Dodgers...it wasn't alleged that they were looking at the site where the Atlantic Yards are about to rise. It was true. Moses didn't want to hear about it.

You may also be interested to know that both the Whitestone and Verrazano Bridges were designed to carry a mass transit line. Moses swore that no such thing would ever happen.

For all of the genius he was able to display, the man didn't actually care about the people of New York City. For him, the city was basically a grid upon which to overlay superhighways. And John Lindsay was the first Mayor we had who actually stood up to him.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Yeah he really messed up the Bronx.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,470,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
Yeah he really messed up the Bronx.
Single-handedly, which nobody else could have accomplished. But don't worry, he wasn't showing any favoritism to your borough. At the beginning of the 1960s, he had a highway similar to the Cross-Bronx, known as the Bushwick Expressway, on the planning boards. He'd have accomplished the same thing in Brooklyn if he'd gotten his way.

It was the aforementioned Mayor Lindsay who blocked Moses' attempts to get the Bushwick Expressway under construction. First he stalled it, then he got it removed from the official city planning calendar...and that turned out to be the end of Robert Moses. His authority was (after way too many years) broken.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,558,902 times
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My mother (who grew up on the GC) often told us of the beautiful pre-war buildings which were razed in order to clear the way for the CBE. Some had sunken living rooms, beautiful exteriors, fancy entryways and foyers.

My parents moved us to LI in '69 as the Bronx was falling apart in many ways. Growing up on LI, I've come to learn of Robert Moses' 'alleged' racial bias when he built the parkway system -- bridges which were built over the parkway had very low clearance to prevent mass transport -- buses -- bringing loads of city people to the beaches and parks. What's ultimately funny is that while he created Robt Moses Beach, Jones Beach, and Jacob Riis beach as 'white' recreation areas, some of them are thoroughly enjoyed today by a spectrum of people.
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