NYC Private Schools (New York, Syracuse, York: elementary schools, zoned, restaurant)

[Viralmd]

Originally Posted by kort677

let's say for arguments sake that I concede and accept your view of some public schools. First off the is at the elementary level, how about the middle and high school levels?

You may have a great situation where you live and your local school is like heaven on earth, but as soon as that kid leaves the bubble of his elementary school, the realities of urban issues enters the equation.

If you do not start your child in a private school right off the bat, the child will have a very hard time if you ever decide that public schooling is not working.
School at the early grades is more than test scores, it is building a foundation of work and study habits, of learning how to act in a classroom, to put it in a nutshell it is learning about how to learn.
If you child goes to a public school he more than likely is not getting the indoctrination like a your private school child, when you try and move the public school kid, at let's say the 6th grade, the assimilation will be difficult, and the longer you wait the harder it will become. And many privates won't even accept that child.

Regarding your anecdotal story from your friend, bah!, maybe he picked a bad private school to look at, for every story like that I can counter with tales of excellence, like in my son's former school where every day every teacher stays 1 hour after the end of the day and students can go from teacher to teacher for extra help, extra work or to just shoot the breeze.

As for extra curriculars, what public school has a science club? a chess club?
a math club? an computer club? sports teams like baseball, soccer, lacrosse, basketball, tennis and so on.

And lastly what public school can instill discipline like a private school?
I'd be willing to bet that you have little first hand knowledge of what a good private school is like and what it can offer.

Thank you. You've made my point. Spot on!

[roseba]

Originally Posted by kort677

I'll concede that they're the best PUBLIC schools in NYC, now you'll have to grasp the fact that they are not the BEST schools in NYC.
Some people will shed their last drop of blood defending public education, often deluding themselves in the process, and do you know who pays the price for the parents ideology? The poor kid.

I am glad that you are so lucky to have such great public schools where you live, unfortunately the rest of the parents in NYC who don't live within the boundaries of that district have to suffer with schools that for various reasons just aren't capable of doing the job of educating the children.

1) Actually the best public schools in NYC outshine the MAJORITY of private schools. Just because it is private, it is good. There are FEW private schools that are better. Very few. And the tuition is out of reach for MOST people.

2) It takes a little work, but you don't have to send your kid to your district school if you don't feel it is good. There are ways around that, variances, special programs etc.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by Jackson99

If you find yourself mulling over the question "Should I send my child to a NYC Public School or a Private School in NYC," most likely you are considering money.

The sad fact is, if you can afford it, you WILL send your child to a private institution. All-inclusive after-school babysitting programs appeal to working class people, divorced parents, and mothers raising children born out of wedlock. And, also sad to say, statistically speaking, these people cannot afford private school tuition in NYC.

BTW... CUNY Graduate programs rank among the best in the nation. Very cool.

If you live in a good area, the schools will be good, both public and private. If you live in a bad area, the schools will be bad, both public and private. Some of the worst educated folks I've seen, came out of Catholic schools in the hood.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by kort677

let's say for arguments sake that I concede and accept your view of some public schools. First off the is at the elementary level, how about the middle and high school levels?

You're asking me about some of the highest rated HS's in the state?

Originally Posted by kort677

You may have a great situation where you live and your local school is like heaven on earth, but as soon as that kid leaves the bubble of his elementary school, the realities of urban issues enters the equation.

"urban issues". You mean like bullying? Do you mean to say that doesn't happen among youths in all types of schools? Do you mean like drugs? Do you mean to say that doesn't happen amoung youths in all types of schools?

Originally Posted by kort677

If you do not start your child in a private school right off the bat, the child will have a very hard time if you ever decide that public schooling is not working.

And your basis of that statement is based on what data?

Originally Posted by kort677

School at the early grades is more than test scores, it is building a foundation of work and study habits, of learning how to act in a classroom, to put it in a nutshell it is learning about how to learn.

There are some problems with teaching to the tests in some schools. That doesn't mean all schools do that.

Originally Posted by kort677

If you child goes to a public school he more than likely is not getting the indoctrination like a your private school child, when you try and move the public school kid, at let's say the 6th grade, the assimilation will be difficult, and the longer you wait the harder it will become. And many privates won't even accept that child.

Indoctrination? Strange choice of words. Yes privates do cherry-pick their student body, and have no accountability to anyone by any real measure. The student is bad, or has discipline problems.... kick him out and send him to public school.

Originally Posted by kort677

Regarding your anecdotal story from your friend, bah!, maybe he picked a bad private school to look at, for every story like that I can counter with tales of excellence, like in my son's former school where every day every teacher stays 1 hour after the end of the day and students can go from teacher to teacher for extra help, extra work or to just shoot the breeze.

There are plenty of public schools that do the same thing.

Originally Posted by kort677

As for extra curriculars, what public school has a science club? a chess club?
a math club? an computer club? sports teams like baseball, soccer, lacrosse, basketball, tennis and so on.

Well my high school that was known for the arts had a softball team, a football team, and a swim team. It also had math and computer clubs, back in the day that most people didn't have home computers.

Originally Posted by kort677

And lastly what public school can instill discipline like a private school?
I'd be willing to bet that you have little first hand knowledge of what a good private school is like and what it can offer.

Disicpline should be exercised at home, not in school. That's the parents responsibility.

Do you have any data to support your ideology? Or do you just read the NY Post? For Pete's sake. Why am I arguing with you about indisputable numbers and facts? I'm sure people who shell out the money don't want to admit that they just threw perfectly good money away... It's an ego thing I suppose. But facts are facts. And of course there has been the 40 year campaign to take down public schools....

So let's walk the walk:

PS 41 -
Test Score Ratings for P.S. 41 Greenwich Village School - New York, New York - NY
http://schools.nyc.gov/daa/SchoolRep...sr/102041.PDF?

3rd grade English 94%, Math 97%.

Activities: additional supports and challenges in literacy and mathematics both during the school day as well as before school.
Programs such as National Dance Institute, Lincoln Center Institute, chess and Junior Knicks basketball . All students in grades 3-5 participate in a weekly club or choice program which includes violin,computer, phys ed, science, dance/theater, art, chess and chorus.
The PTA sponsors community events such as the Halloween Monster Mash,
Book Fair and the Art Auction.

I picked this school because I can say that this is all true, and not just hype. I went to that school and got to paint, learn Greek, French, work with clay, had plenty of outdoor enrichment actvities, acting, and chorus. I also remember the spring fair fondly. So no, it isn't just hype. And no, I didn't live in the Village, but somehow, my parents found a way for me to go to school there.

If that is enough, try this school:

PS 234 -
Test Score Ratings for P.S. 234 Independence School - New York, New York - NY
http://schools.nyc.gov/daa/SchoolRep...sr/102234.PDF?

3rd grade English 97%, Math 100%.

Activities:
Classes are looped so that teachers have an opportunity to link with their children for two years, i.e., from grades K to 1, 2 to 3 , and 4 to 5
All children participate in: science,computer, art, music and physical education. In addition all 4th and 5th graders have the opportunity to play a musical instrument.
Extensive after-school program with clubs and activities, administered by a PTA/community group, including instrumental music.

What about
PS 150 -
P.S. 150 - New York, New York - NY - school overview

3rd grade English 92%, Math 100%.

Activities:
Students engage in weekly, art, music,computer, science and gym classes. OfferS two Artist-in- Residence programs for each class. Comprehensive after-school program that offers homework help, and clubs such as tap dance, pottery, photography, cooking, crocheting, karate, drama, and yoga.

And just to stir things up, let's go to great schools in Brooklyn.

PS 172 (not exactly a chic neighborhood. More like "the hood")
P.S. 172 Beacon School of Excellence - Brooklyn, New York - NY - school overview
3rd grade English 99%, Math 100%.

Literacy program in which teachers work collaboratively integrating content knowledge and strategies. Math moves students and teachers towards reflection and meta cognitive skills. Leadership and empowerment curriculum and instructional practices.

Early morning, extended day and Saturday programs for children and adults offer academic enrichment, recreational activities and small group arts education, i.e.: vocal & instrumental music, dance, art, theatre arts.

Seminars by community leaders, partnerships with B.M., Teachers College, Lincoln Center, and NYSCA enrich our students' learning. One collaboration with the Brooklyn Museum looks at visual literacy and reading/writing as parallel processes which provide students with familiar
language and use of familiar techniques in multiple curricular.


And what about all the various High Schools to chose from? There are more to chose from than just Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, and Stuyvesant. There are more great HS than you can shake a stick.

And lastly what public school can instill discipline like a private school?
I'd be willing to bet that you have little first hand knowledge of what a good private school is like and what it can offer.

Very few people do, since the schools that trump great public schools have tuition upward of $30K per year. Your local private day school does not compare to those schools. It's like comparing Yale with The University of Pennsylvania and then exclaming that Briarcliff College or Manhattanville is better than the University of Pennsylvania (ranked one of the top business schools in the country) just because it is private. Being private doesn't mean it is better.

And what of the alleged superiority of private schools? The average blue collar job in NYC is filled with those who went to parochial schools as kids and didn't go to college. And some of these folk can barely put a sentence together without using double negatives. That is hardly a testiment to the superiority of private schools.

I had a lot more to say, but it got lost somehow in submission. My daughter needs my attention now.

[Viralmd]

The top flight private schools (in Manhattan, the ones I know best) REQUIRE three years of TWO foreign languages at the high school level, in addition to your basic history, English, math, biology, chemistry, etc. They also offer a huge variety of computer science, advanced calculus, studio art and other areas where other schools are lacking. How many public schools offer Mandarin as a language choice? I should also note that there's a requirement for 40 minutes of homework/subject/night...hardly seen elsewhere. And I'm a proponent of homework. It makes a student learn.

There is a tiny student:teacher ratio - the entire graduating class at my old school was 30. And THAT was divided into two sections, so at the MOST the student:teacher ratio is 15:1.

Plus there is a requirement for community service in many of these schools. And that's not seen in ANY public school.

[gimme it]

Fortunately, we are zoned for one of the very best public elementary schools in Manhattan. Our child had the most amazing year, and I highly doubt it would have been better at a private school. Our PTA raised almost $400,000 this year.. This pays for all of the extras like Chess, etc. The parents in our class were almost all professionals or creative types. They in turn have smart kids. Not all public schools are alike, but we lucked out. Middle school is another story, but we will be long gone before having to face that one.

[gimme it]

I DISAGREE with almost 100% of what Kort677 has written. He/she sounds like they have never stepped foot in a great NYC public school.

[Viralmd]

Originally Posted by gimme it

I DISAGREE with almost 100% of what Kort677 has written. He/she sounds like they have never stepped foot in a great NYC public school.

The problem is that there are relatively very few GREAT public schools in NYC.

[mead]

Yeah you can find a half-dozen public schools in the city that are top notch, however they are the exception to the rule.

What about the other couple of hundred public schools where there is a lack of funding and the kids are running wild? That is what most people have to deal with.

[gimme it]

There are a lot more than "half a dozen" great schools. I don't have the energy to post them, but go to greatschools.com.