Lack of upstate NY jobs in education (New York, Buffalo: middle-class, best city)

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by iloveupstateny

I have to agree with you. Before I moved south, I too had heard horrible things about the quality of schools compared to upstate NY. Many a disgruntled person who is fed up with NY (taxes, politics, etc.) said that the only reason they were here is for their kid's schooling. However, in my area, I am actually really surprised. The majority of the teachers I work with are NY (Buffalo, Rochester, Elmira, Binghamton area), Mass, OH, and CT, with a few California graduates. I am seeing a lot more people who are open to change, will listen with an open mind , and will follow best and current practices in education easier than in other areas. Basically, I am seeing less drama and more professionalism from school staff.

I agree with you as well. In the last ten months my graduate classes in education has focused on NCLB. We are instructed to know our students and implement methods which they will all be able to learn by. If it means teaching a subject utilizing several different methods then by all means do so. I can tell you how many older teachers I have met who do not want to alter or change the way they teach. They are more concerned about the politics that go on in their schools rather then what is important for the students. I can understand the reasons for tenure but keeping a teacher even thought they don’t want to upgrade their teaching skills is just plain selfish. So many New York teachers are making such very high salaries retiring is just out of the question. They have adopted a high standard of living giving that giving up such a life style would not fit their purpose.

[iloveupstateny]

Right, I have been back in my hometown in NY (between both Buffalo and Rochester) and have been talking to several people that I have bumped into (it's a small town, what can I say?) and have heard of literally 6 people who have been interviewed and hired within the last few days before school starts in the year and it has always been the case of "who you know". For such a state that lauds itself on producing such fine quality educators, I can't help but miss the logic in all of this here. I mean this is 6 people from 6 different school districts. Why do they wait until the last minute? I've also heard that it is good to go somewhere else and get experience but then others tell me that with too much experience no one will want to pay....I am a bit confused and unsure if I will ever be able to return home to a decent job if this is the truth.

[Genevanative]

Originally Posted by iloveupstateny

Right, I have been back in my hometown in NY (between both Buffalo and Rochester) and have been talking to several people that I have bumped into (it's a small town, what can I say?) and have heard of literally 6 people who have been interviewed and hired within the last few days before school starts in the year and it has always been the case of "who you know". For such a state that lauds itself on producing such fine quality educators, I can't help but miss the logic in all of this here. I mean this is 6 people from 6 different school districts. Why do they wait until the last minute? I've also heard that it is good to go somewhere else and get experience but then others tell me that with too much experience no one will want to pay....I am a bit confused and unsure if I will ever be able to return home to a decent job if this is the truth.

As far as why districts are 'waiting until the last minute', please understand that many jobs become available at the last minute. The reason for this is that if a current teacher in a school district is offered a job in another district, the actual 'hiring date' is normally September 1st of that year. Therefore, this particular teacher is not going to notify his/her original school district until the last minute so as not to forfeit medical insurance coverage. Basically, if I decide to change districts, and I'm offered a job on July 16th of this year, if I immediately resign my position in my present district, I'm without health coverage until September 1st. No way I'm gonna let that happen.

Please remember also that many times when people are not offered a position that they have interviewed for, they're bound and determined to come up with a reason why. How do you know that its 'who you know'? Did the person in personnel tell you, "We're giving the job to Suzy, because she's the principals niece?" Of course not. So this is all conjecture. If you were the one hired, did they tell you, "Hey, I went to school with your mom and dad, and they did me a favor years ago"? Of course not. Come on folks....this cronyism/nepotism 'excuse' has been used forever no matter the industry. Does that mean it NEVER happens? Of course not!!! But to use this concept to explain why there's a 'lack of education jobs in NYS' is unacceptable.

Please let me explain once again my qualifications in addressing both issues. I've been teaching in NYS for 25 years. I have children attending school in a different district. I have served on interview committees in no fewer than 7 districts over my career as both a teacher, parent, and curriculum advisor. In each district there's committees of parents, teachers, and administrators who participate in the initial selection process. This ensures a natural 'checks and balance' system in selecting the final three candidates to be interviewd by the superintendent.

If any 'who you know' occurs, its probably occurring in selecting those candidates to actually be interviewed. Of course a familiar name/face will be granted a second look and maybe even an interview, but in NO WAY does it guarantee a job.

So, why are so many potential NY teachers being 'turned down for jobs'? Basically its supply and demand. On a previous post,someone mentioned 600 applicants for each job. Duh!!!
Let me ask each of you: What are you doing to make yourself and your credentials 'stand out'? What do you bring to the table so that a particular school district cannot pass you up????

For example, in my district, we have a very diverse population, culturally, socially and economically. We just hired an English teacher last week from a stack of about 30 applications, from which we selected a dozen for interviews. Most were highly qualified and had a solid number of years experience. What made this particular candidate stand out? This person also had a Special Education background and spoke fluent Spanish. Many of the other candidates (some even taught in neighboring school districts!!) had no idea what ESL (English as a Second Language) meant, much less realize that there's actually a teaching position in that area!!!
So, I ask you again, what do you bring to the table??? Can you coach? Can you direct a drama production? Organize a school newspaper? Chaperone Ski club? Speak a second language that may address a certain student population segment, or pinch hit in a foreign language class if an emergency (they do happen in all teachers' lives) happens?
With so much competition, the onus is on YOU to show an interview commmittee that your credentials can fulfill whatever special needs that a particular district may have.

Good luck to all of you!!!! I find it very exciting that NYS has such a great supply of so many folks who are motivated to teach our young people. I started teaching in the days when the basic philosophy was(and people said this right to my face!!!), "Those who can do... those who can't....TEACH!!"
I'm thrilled to see that my beloved profession has finally gained the respectibility that it has.

Hang in there....all of you....you'll get there!!!

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by Genevanative

As far as why districts are 'waiting until the last minute', please understand that many jobs become available at the last minute. The reason for this is that if a current teacher in a school district is offered a job in another district, the actual 'hiring date' is normally September 1st of that year. Therefore, this particular teacher is not going to notify his/her original school district until the last minute so as not to forfeit medical insurance coverage. Basically, if I decide to change districts, and I'm offered a job on July 16th of this year, if I immediately resign my position in my present district, I'm without health coverage until September 1st. No way I'm gonna let that happen.

Please remember also that many times when people are not offered a position that they have interviewed for, they're bound and determined to come up with a reason why. How do you know that its 'who you know'? Did the person in personnel tell you, "We're giving the job to Suzy, because she's the principals niece?" Of course not. So this is all conjecture. If you were the one hired, did they tell you, "Hey, I went to school with your mom and dad, and they did me a favor years ago"? Of course not. Come on folks....this cronyism/nepotism 'excuse' has been used forever no matter the industry. Does that mean it NEVER happens? Of course not!!! But to use this concept to explain why there's a 'lack of education jobs in NYS' is unacceptable.

Please let me explain once again my qualifications in addressing both issues. I've been teaching in NYS for 25 years. I have children attending school in a different district. I have served on interview committees in no fewer than 7 districts over my career as both a teacher, parent, and curriculum advisor. In each district there's committees of parents, teachers, and administrators who participate in the initial selection process. This ensures a natural 'checks and balance' system in selecting the final three candidates to be interviewd by the superintendent.

If any 'who you know' occurs, its probably occurring in selecting those candidates to actually be interviewed. Of course a familiar name/face will be granted a second look and maybe even an interview, but in NO WAY does it guarantee a job.

So, why are so many potential NY teachers being 'turned down for jobs'? Basically its supply and demand. On a previous post,someone mentioned 600 applicants for each job. Duh!!!
Let me ask each of you: What are you doing to make yourself and your credentials 'stand out'? What do you bring to the table so that a particular school district cannot pass you up????

For example, in my district, we have a very diverse population, culturally, socially and economically. We just hired an English teacher last week from a stack of about 30 applications, from which we selected a dozen for interviews. Most were highly qualified and had a solid number of years experience. What made this particular candidate stand out? This person also had a Special Education background and spoke fluent Spanish. Many of the other candidates (some even taught in neighboring school districts!!) had no idea what ESL (English as a Second Language) meant, much less realize that there's actually a teaching position in that area!!!
So, I ask you again, what do you bring to the table??? Can you coach? Can you direct a drama production? Organize a school newspaper? Chaperone Ski club? Speak a second language that may address a certain student population segment, or pinch hit in a foreign language class if an emergency (they do happen in all teachers' lives) happens?
With so much competition, the onus is on YOU to show an interview commmittee that your credentials can fulfill whatever special needs that a particular district may have.

Good luck to all of you!!!! I find it very exciting that NYS has such a great supply of so many folks who are motivated to teach our young people. I started teaching in the days when the basic philosophy was(and people said this right to my face!!!), "Those who can do... those who can't....TEACH!!"
I'm thrilled to see that my beloved profession has finally gained the respectibility that it has.

Hang in there....all of you....you'll get there!!!

I read your post and I think you make very little sense. How does a person make them selves more marketable when there are over 600 applicants for every job? Let’s be real here. No one wants to hold their breath waiting for some one like you to retire! You probably live in a very nice area and selling your home would be problem since the real-estate market is dead. You still have to pay your very high taxes and being retired would cut into your life style. You, like many old teachers can't afford to retire! It is easy for you to comment because you have been teaching for over 25 years and have probably lost touch with the job market we young teachers face. Well if you can't make it in New York, then leave. New York is no dreamer’s paradise. Why should new teachers put our selves through the hell of being 1 of 600 when jobs are plentiful in the south? You just don't get it that many people don't share your optimism. We don't have to say in New York. As I mention before my graduate class met the assistant superintended of the North Rockland Central School District. He plainly told my class if you can make the move south do it. Jobs are very few here. The head of the education department at the college I attend told me that New York State had advised many colleges to stop taking on any more graduate students interested in teaching English or Social studies. I can understand the reason why new teachers must improve themselves, but I highly doubt most old tenured teaches would even consider doing so. Why should they?

[iloveupstateny]

First of all, thank you Genevanative for being so thorough and helpful with your suggestions. It is appreciated and I understand a bit more about the formal process.

I think the vast majority of experienced teachers rightly earn every penny that they receive---but maybe that is the thing, teachers basically earn based on years worked, not on merit or skills, so once a teacher is hired, it is quite difficult to actually get rid of a poor teacher. Plus, someone who shines in an interview, in theory, could become a very poor teacher in years to come as they fail to follow best practice, become lazy, find a teaching style that they think works best and is unwilling to accept criticism.......

I think the battle, that of a beginning educator (or any young professional) faces wanting to live in upstate NY is uphill! I agree with continuously trying to be marketable----but again, compared to other areas, it comes down to added education which equals money to already mounting school loans, etc., etc. that just takes away from quality of life factors elsewhere. Besides the remaining marketable takes money bit, it is all basically for the "possibility" that it will make me stand out more than I did before and the "possibility" of an interview, etc. So, really, it's a gamble for both sides.

I personally think it comes down to a personal aspect in recruiting which NY appears to lack. In all other states where I have applied for jobs, I can call up the school, then get placed through to the person who would be the supervisor of said position, have a nice and friendly conversation with this person who always thanks me for showing interest in their school, get called in for an interview, and then receive a job offer. This is in prime areas of Mass, Ct., Pa, and Ohio, as well as the Southern states. In NY, I call to see if my resume has been received, I talk to the district secretary who takes her role of "THE GATEKEEPER" all too seriously, and rarely hear another thing.

maybe i should have started the original post with lack of jobs in any field in upstate ny. the front page of Rochester's Democrat & Chronicle seems to sum up my feelings:
Democrat & Chronicle: Local News

[laughter4141]

oh man, this is hilarious. I have never EVER seen anything as ridiculous as the interview process in the most sought-after school districts in NY state. The questions are ridiculous and there is no way to tell if whomever gets hired, is actually going to be a good teacher in the long-run. And I have to agree, the school secretary in NY state schools really does have her work cut out for her. Too bad, that the only people that see "THE PROBLEM" in all of this---are the ones that aren't in power, for those with the power of hiring, actually just think they are getting the best and brightest due to many local candidates reared from NY state schools. Personally, I'd hire the person who went to the best school (sorry SUNY is good, but come on, beer drinking 101 is definitely on the agenda at most of the SUNY schools where most of my teachers come from) or had had prior work experience (in any field) for my district! A sense of humor has NEVER hurt either. Best of luck. Keep plugging away. And I don't disagree with any of you. NY is not (AT ALL) what is used to be. South and West is what I keep hearing.

[cranberrybogger24]

I, too, am trying to relocate back to upstate after being away several years. What is funny to me is that I am being called (FINALLY) for interviews for jobs that have BEEN POSTED FOR 2-3 MONTHS to be set up in mid to late-August. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that NY schools start later than almost all other schools in the country---so people have to start work. So anyone coming from out of the area, it would be near impossible to relocate that quickly. SO they must be just picking from their local applicant pool and not really worried about getting the best candidate.

[joelle24670]

Every Sunday when I look in the paper for teaching positions, it makes me want to puke. Simply put, the area is not growing and I doubt it will likely grow anytime soon. When was the last time NY state ever had to build a brand new school due to the influx of kids?

It's a joke because I know some real winners who are teachers that got hired a few years back because of some mass retirement that was going on.

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by joelle24670

Every Sunday when I look in the paper for teaching positions, it makes me want to puke. Simply put, the area is not growing and I doubt it will likely grow anytime soon. When was the last time NY state ever had to build a brand new school due to the influx of kids?

It's a joke because I know some real winners who are teachers that got hired a few years back because of some mass retirement that was going on.

The Webster school district in western NY had to build a new middle school and have two high schools instead of the one, because of the influx of kids. Many suburban areas in NY state are growing.

[laughter4141]

I'm curious. What suburban areas of NY are growing? How can a suburban area grow considerably if the city isn't?