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I get so frustrated when I see these rich Islanders and city people writing how 200,00 for a 1500 sq ft house with 6,000/tax in Upstate is Affordable. lest discuss this a bit.
I can afford 10.00 for a hot dog. Would you call that affordable? If you have any kind of job and don’t live in a 3rd world country, you can likely afford it too. In fact, I can afford to pay 100.00 for that same hot dog. Is that affordable? why not? c'mon, why not? What defines affordable? Ok, you might say, "well, its not reasonable". so then for the sake of my debate, affordable is, at this point, mostly a relative index. We might realistically put that hot dog down to about .50 or 1.00. We would say now that is definitely affordable. Why? because its "reasonable" you might concur. Well than we must define "reasonable". I think we can agree that reasonable means "a good value" and that means that you get something that is "fair" for what you paid. C'mon, follow me here. What defines "value"? Is 10.00 a good value for a standard hot dog? NO why not? That’s easily within you ability to pay that, isn’t it, rich person? If someone had 10 million or even 1 million than 10.00 for a hot dog is "relative" So can we deduce that anything for sale in this world is all "relative"? For the sake of not getting into a much deeper discussion involving the federal reserve, raw material & production, global economic systems and the gold standard, we can say for now that NO, it is not all relative. And ultimately never should be. To bring this to its logical conclusion we must then define "fair value" and that dear rich person is guaged on what the "majority persons" in a "particular" area can reasonably pay for what he/she has the ability to earn based on standard wage index's in that area. That is the realistic system we work by in this country. Agree with it or not.
Now then, for what someone can earn in the city, 200,000 for 1500 sq ft may be both affordable and reasonable. (though I could argue even the reasonable part, but not now). Come Upstate and say the same thing and you have just spewed forth a mouth full of ignorance. And if you pay that you are a FOOL. No one in the "vast majority" here can realistically afford that without also being a blame fool for going way over their head and working more than a reasonable days labor to make it happen. Now, a Lawyer or Doctor may want a nicer house. Maybe he will want 3,000 sq ft with a 3 car garage. And that will be significantly more. But, you see, it will still be guaged on the market index. OUR market index for OUR area.
In conclusion: The rich city people with their selfish and arrogant attitudes are causing as much or more damage than all the companies up here leaving. You and other selfish locals here are a plague on a homogenous society and social diversity.
When you have to pay $500,000 for a house that is worth half of that then a $200,000 house is very affordable. When you compare upstate to Long Island you are comparing apples to oranges. Not everyone that lives in a house worth $500,000 is rich, more than likely they bought it when it was priced at $200,000 and under.
When you have to pay $500,000 for a house that is worth half of that then a $200,000 house is very affordable. When you compare upstate to Long Island you are comparing apples to oranges. Not everyone that lives in a house worth $500,000 is rich, more than likely they bought it when it was priced at $200,000 and under.
When dealing in the world of "comparisons" you are right, Clifton Park compared to Stoneybrook is not only affordable but is a downright steal. But the reality is for Upstate, our prices are way over inflated and very hurtful to an average person only earning 30 or maybe 40 k. That is a darn good wage up here for many people. If the spouse works and gets even close to that much, yes you can squeeze it out but the big word there is "squeeze"
Also for the sake of space there could be a whole other paragraph for those in LI that are not rich, you are right there too. My sympathy for those there that are being tragically forced out. Because LI is way ahead of the curve many folks there are long burnt & fried. Here, us folks are feeling the red hot flames. We would just like a little understanding from them who have gone before us. When the poor people there move here, they instanty become the rich. Then the poor here move off to NC and become the rich there. And the beat goes on... I know, I know, we all have to "deal" with it but we hate to leave here just like they hated to leave their homestead.
I assume you're talking about those from the NYC area expanding into the further away commutable counties and raising prices by their influx?
High income areas, such as NYC, and high valuation areas, such as Ca (which began in hi income areas), create a growing anomoly of unreasonable inflation in housing prices that spreads out to wherever those people relocate, especially if done enmass and if they are prodded to overpay. It does create a fundamental societal shift in that normal income people who don't already own RE cannot afford their own neighborhoods. This is one reason illegals as second class, low paid, non-citizens have become familiar in service industries in these areas. In other words, things are way out of kilter. Demand a raise!
I assume you're talking about those from the NYC area expanding into the further away commutable counties and raising prices by their influx? .....
In other words, things are way out of kilter. Demand a raise!
Wow, I appreciate the honest responses here. Thank you all.
Yes, since I posted this in a NY state forum, I refer to NYC metro but this could well be said also of other cities that generate wealth and spreading out to their respective states.
Another thing I wanted to say before I get attacked on this is that I am not against wealth. We all dream of that, I'm sure. In fact, yes, I am an administrator and went to bat for my employees and myself and wrote letters and spoke at meetings pleading for a more generous increase this year. Wouldnt you know, I was able to get it. I am very pleased and so are my employees. But still it is tough going in our area. I also realize that our new increase will mean charging more for products & service somewhere in the mix, so what comes around goes around and it really does get sticky and "out of kilter" as you say. Anyway, I am glad people are able to live well if they have it but it gets back to the value thingy and the displacement of other deserving families. Thanks again for your response
Anything under $500,000 in the NYC metro area (including all of Long Island & NJ North of Exit 7 on the NJ Turnpike) is considered affordable given average incomes & salaries.
$200,000 will barely get you a studio co-op apartment somewhere out in Queens where there is little public transportation & in order to buy one you need at least 20% down and to be approved by an autocratic co-op board.
I read that rents across the region have risen 36% between 2002 - 2006 and the citywide vacancy rate is under 1%. People line up around the block for the chance to rent a studio anywhere in Manhattan for less than $2,000 even if they have to pay a 15% brokers fee.
But soon prices in upstate NY (south of Albany) & in Eastern PA are going to be driven up (along with taxes) because of wealthy NY'ers buying second homes (even while they 'rent' their first home).
I assume you're talking about those from the NYC area expanding into the further away commutable counties and raising prices by their influx?
High income areas, such as NYC, and high valuation areas, such as Ca (which began in hi income areas), create a growing anomoly of unreasonable inflation in housing prices that spreads out to wherever those people relocate, especially if done enmass and if they are prodded to overpay. It does create a fundamental societal shift in that normal income people who don't already own RE cannot afford their own neighborhoods. This is one reason illegals as second class, low paid, non-citizens have become familiar in service industries in these areas. In other words, things are way out of kilter. Demand a raise!
Why not move?? Why stay in an area where you don't fit in (by class as well as race) and you have to struggle to survive on a 5 figure salary??
And it isn't just illegal immigrants who you think survive on $15 an hour but people who have college degrees who have not yet hit that $100,000 salary threshold. Or as the NY Times would say $200,000 since 'everyone' now makes $100,000, $200,000 is the new $100,000 and the minimum needed to survive in the NYC metro region.
A house(more like a crap shack bungalow)..just went on the market at the end of our street. 349,900 built 1950 2 bedrooms, one bath 1200 square feet. They are trying to sell like a 3 bedroom (listed as 2 bedroom with small alcove in master for a babies nursery)--yeah right. Taxes are 6k I think..but we live in the top rated district in Dutchess...yeap an hour MIN from the city.
I think they are out of their mind..but then again..we hear all time constantly..."you may not pay that kind of money, but someone from westchester would". My 3 bedroom raised ranch appraised at 528k (2 months ago)...BUT I bought it for under 175k 9 years ago.
So it was luck of the draw.... at the timing of the market.
Here in Northern NJ a $400,000 home is a shack needing repairs.
It's INSANE!!!!
Not everyone educated or not earns even $50K/year in the New York City metro - so it's easy to see the backwards math.
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