U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 08-09-2011, 10:09 PM
 
30,794 posts, read 35,834,492 times
Reputation: 6143
I think that is exaggerated a bit and I know people from Elmira that have said it is pretty much the same old Elmira. While there is some crime, it isn't as bad as people think it is. It's also more of an abandoned city in parts versus being ghetto, which gets overused a bit too much. It isn't anything close to being like Flint in terms of crime. It's just an area that needs more jobs and maybe the energy industry will create more. Unfortunately, drugs are everywhere and it's all about lifestyle choices.

Also, here is information the demographics of the city and minorities does not necessarily equal ghetto: 2010 Census Interactive Population Search

You can search for the information of other communities as well.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-09-2011 at 10:17 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2011, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Nevernever land
2,597 posts, read 2,016,181 times
Reputation: 4373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think that is exaggerated a bit and I know people from Elmira that have said it is pretty much the same old Elmira. While there is some crime, it isn't as bad as people think it is. It's also more of an abandoned city in parts versus being ghetto, which gets overused a bit too much. It isn't anything close to being like Flint in terms of crime. It's just an area that needs more jobs and maybe the energy industry will create more. Unfortunately, drugs are everywhere and it's all about lifestyle choices.

Also, here is information the demographics of the city and minorities does not necessarily equal ghetto: 2010 Census Interactive Population Search

You can search for the information of other communities as well.

Your right. At this point it is exaggerated. That is why I said that it had the potential to become very bad. This year has been safe in Elmira compared to other years as far as violent crime. It's definately not in Flint's level. How could it be Flint is much bigger. Flint would be compared to a place like Syracuse. Similar in size, but Syracuse is much safer. Syracuse for a medium size city is very safe compared to its counterparts in Buffalo and Rochester. But getting back to Elmira, it is more ghetto than you think. I don't think you really know it as well as you think you do. Go there for a week and you see open air drug markets all over many of their neighborhoods. If you even know how to spot that type of thing. I myself don't do drugs, but I know that city is "drug friendly"

But with two prisons right there, it seems that it can get worse. That was my point. It has the potential to get bad. Bad economy. Lots of factories closed. Very few opportunities. Welfare state, etc. What more do you need?

Elmira is a small city. Let's not forget that. They should'nt have the crime of a Flint or Rochester, Buffalo, etc.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2011, 07:31 PM
 
30,794 posts, read 35,834,492 times
Reputation: 6143
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Your right. At this point it is exaggerated. That is why I said that it had the potential to become very bad. This year has been safe in Elmira compared to other years as far as violent crime. It's definately not in Flint's level. How could it be Flint is much bigger. Flint would be compared to a place like Syracuse. Similar in size, but Syracuse is much safer. Syracuse for a medium size city is very safe compared to its counterparts in Buffalo and Rochester. But getting back to Elmira, it is more ghetto than you think. I don't think you really know it as well as you think you do. Go there for a week and you see open air drug markets all over many of their neighborhoods. If you even know how to spot that type of thing. I myself don't do drugs, but I know that city is "drug friendly"

But with two prisons right there, it seems that it can get worse. That was my point. It has the potential to get bad. Bad economy. Lots of factories closed. Very few opportunities. Welfare state, etc. What more do you need?

Elmira is a small city. Let's not forget that. They should'nt have the crime of a Flint or Rochester, Buffalo, etc.
Auburn is a similar city, with a prison near Downtown and isn't that bad. I understand that the potential is there, but according to information and being there from time to time, I wouldn't put Elmira in Syracuse's league in that regard, let alone Flint.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Nevernever land
2,597 posts, read 2,016,181 times
Reputation: 4373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Auburn is a similar city, with a prison near Downtown and isn't that bad. I understand that the potential is there, but according to information and being there from time to time, I wouldn't put Elmira in Syracuse's league in that regard, let alone Flint.

Who put it in Syracuse's league? Syracuse is five times bigger and six times in metro. Why would it be in Their league? I never said that. Now your putting words into my mouth. I said it has the potential to become worse. And Auburn has one prison in between Syracuse and Ithaca. Elmira is in between nowhere. It is close to nothing. Corning is 20 miles away and has a city pop. of 11,000. For a city that isolated (outside the prison situation) that city was really nice and thriving at one time and should not be headed in this direction. Nor should it have gotten continually worse with the exception of the last few years.. It's definately not that bad now. But it will get worse. The city has too many areas now where there are open air drug markets going on from about 11 am on.

Syracuse is not bad at all for a big city. But just because I say that, there still not even close to the same size. Syracuse in my mind for a bigger city than an Elmira is relatively safe. I've been there more times than I can count, and I was impressed with how it differs from Rochester and Buffalo crime wise. Those cities look like a world removed from Syracuse. Not even close crime wise. Those cities will always be much harder than Syracuse. Be happy for that. And Auburn is not quite like Elmira. Realistically, Elmira is more on par with Utica and Schenectedy than cities like Auburn or Jamestown. But still not near the wreckage of Newburgh. That sums it up pretty good.

Last edited by supermanpansy; 08-11-2011 at 07:45 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 06:39 AM
 
30,794 posts, read 35,834,492 times
Reputation: 6143
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Who put it in Syracuse's league? Syracuse is five times bigger and six times in metro. Why would it be in Their league? I never said that. Now your putting words into my mouth. I said it has the potential to become worse. And Auburn has one prison in between Syracuse and Ithaca. Elmira is in between nowhere. It is close to nothing. Corning is 20 miles away and has a city pop. of 11,000. For a city that isolated, it has the potential to be bad. It's definately not that bad now. But it will get worse. Syracuse is not bad at all for a big city. But just because I say that, there still not even close to the same size. Syracuse in my mind for a bigger city than an Elmira is relatively safe. I've been there more times than I can count, and I was impressed with how it differs from Rochester and Buffalo crime wise. Those cities look like a world removed from Syracuse. Not even close crime wise. Those cities will always be much harder than Syracuse. Be happy for that. And Auburn is not quite like Elmira. Realistically, Elmira is more on par with Utica and Schenectedy than cities like Auburn or Jamestown. But still not near the wreckage of Newburgh. That sums it up pretty good.
I was talking in terms of crime rate. Syracuse is lower than Buffalo and Rochester in that regard.

Elmira is similar to Auburn and Jamestown in terms of size, but demographically it is similar to Utica and Schenectady in terms of Black percentage and maybe ethnically to some degree. You can check that out here: US2010

I will say that those other two cities(Utica and Schenectady), while not awful, have higher crime rates than Elmira, if I'm not mistaken.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Nevernever land
2,597 posts, read 2,016,181 times
Reputation: 4373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I was talking in terms of crime rate. Syracuse is lower than Buffalo and Rochester in that regard.

Elmira is similar to Auburn and Jamestown in terms of size, but demographically it is similar to Utica and Schenectady in terms of Black percentage and maybe ethnically to some degree. You can check that out here: US2010

I will say that those other two cities(Utica and Schenectady), while not awful, have higher crime rates than Elmira, if I'm not mistaken.

They do, but there also much larger. Utica is similar in crime, yet is twice the size and has a metro of 300,000. Schenectedy is also twice the size, but part of the Albany metro which is nearing 1 million. Elmira is the pricniple city 29,000 in a metro of 88 to 89 thousand. That's not even breaking the 100.000 for a metro. That's small. So what I was trying to say that for a city that small, (even though stats aren't that bad) there is much more criminal wise going on in Elmira per rate than many cities its size. I know. I've spent alot of time in Elmra last year and this year and I was shocked at how many neighborhoods are worn down and there were many parts of the city that looked very ghetto. Street walkers, tons of dealers. In some cases multiple, multiple dealers in some neighborhoods. Some of these same neighborhoods looked like something you would find in Salina street in Syracuse. It also depends when You've visited. Sometimes you can drive around Elmira at certain times of the day and it can look average. Then a few hours later in that same day, many neighborhoods can be off the hook with dealers and crime. For a small city it could have been nice. That's why I mention this potential. For the last ten years, Elmira seems to get a little more run down and grittier and every year more minorities who are from much bigger cities are locating here. It might even be kind of safe in spurts, but mark my words. Elmira will have some rough years in the next fifteen years. A few years back when I was living back in Buffalo, I remember Elmira having close to thirty shootings. (not all people were hit, many missed) in the first five months. I don't know about you, but that is not a safe nice city for a city with that low of population. There were shootouts near the college when I lived there. College students in the area where going out to their cars to find their hubs gone and in some cases the whole wheel, with the car on bricks. Don't know how they pulled that off. Most of my old friends are all on Crack and like I said before, there is an open air drug trade in that city where I think sometime in the future, they will start creating more gangs for protection from the NYC-Rochester dealers that flood the area and try to take certain areas over. There are already about five gangs in Elmira. Not real big in some instances, but they definately have the potential to get much worse. Will Elmira ever be like Newburgh (a city of similar size) but a metro three times the size? I hope not, but Elmira doesn't seem to be improving much in substaining economic growth in the city. These are other factors that will influence a ctiies crime rate. Crime rates are misleading though. Not alot of crime is reported for one. They lower crimes for smaller sentences too. Many of the crimes I've known about for the few years I lived there, didn't even get any coverage. Alot of time if a case is still pending or a crime hasn't been solved, that crime most likely goes unknown to the residents if and only if or until someone is caught.

I had a friend who got nearly beat to death. Never heard about it in the papers or on the news. He almost died. He was my roommate at the time. Years back when I used to smoke weed. I knew many armed robberies of drug dealers. You would hear about them every week. Those drug dealers being robbed of drugs are not going to call the police. I knew many people shot at, stabbed, house shot at, etc, that you would never hear about. About a year ago, unless it's a serious felony, you would never get any crime for Elmira in the newspaper. They post the crime blotter for closer and smaller areas around Elmira, but they leave out Elmira. If they post anyting, it most likely is a serious felony, and barely anybody knows about all of the other crime that they stopped posting in the paper. I personally have a friend who's younger brother is only 16 and he has burglarized over fifty homes in a two month period. When I lived there, I never heard about any of it. It was only through them that I got the story.

Last edited by supermanpansy; 08-11-2011 at 08:10 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 08:49 AM
 
30,794 posts, read 35,834,492 times
Reputation: 6143
Reporting of crime can be adjusted for any community, to be honest. While there is crime in Elnora, it is basically lifestyle based and the East side has the notorious reputation. I still wouldn't put Elmira up there as the state's most dangerous cities. It's like any other city where it varies in terms of neighborhoods. It was a city of 50,000 at one time too. So, it has seen better days in terms of vibrancy.

Oh, by the way, check out similar sized cities in the South and you will be surprised.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Nevernever land
2,597 posts, read 2,016,181 times
Reputation: 4373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Reporting of crime can be adjusted for any community, to be honest. While there is crime in Elnora, it is basically lifestyle based and the East side has the notorious reputation. I still wouldn't put Elmira up there as the state's most dangerous cities. It's like any other city where it varies in terms of neighborhoods. It was a city of 50,000 at one time too. So, it has seen better days in terms of vibrancy.

Oh, by the way, check out similar sized cities in the South and you will be surprised.

The cities in the south are the worst. And lets be honest, some of those cities are like 80 to 90 percent minority. Not a racist either. It just is what it is. The more minorities in a city, the bigger chance for a higher crime rate. That is not my opinion it is fact. So please don't label me a racist because I am certainly not. I never said that Elmira was one of the states most dangerous cities. But it is more dangerous than most of the cities its size with the exception of a fewer smaller cities near NYC like Poughipsee, Newburgh, and Middletown. But those cities have much larger metros too. As well as being close to the largest city in the country. Elmira is in the middle of farmland. No cities around it for hours. And I've been saying that Elmira has been relatively violent crime free this year. There have been some, but this year for some reason has really calmed down. Many people assume this is because so many criminals are locked up right now. But I keep saying that Elmira has the potential to be worse in the coming years. Prison population keeps moving and staying. Jobs never seem to come, unlike Ithaca which is forty five minutes away. Big welfare city. Not alot of people working and very high drug use and addiction rates.These are the factors that I am considering as well as the fact that I have lived here for over two years a while back and a good portion of the city is ghetto. That is not to say that the suburbs are bad there not. The majority of everything happens in the city limits. I'm not trying to paint Elmira as some god awful place. But compared to twenty years ago (and I am old enough to have seen the difference) it has become like night and day, and only seems to be getting worse. Even when crime has been down. At least it looks worse. Many neighborhoods are littered with garbage, graffiti, and abandoned buildings and filled with drugs.

All cities have ups and downs. Look at how bad NYC once was. Look at it now. D.C is a great example. They had like forty murders or less a few years ago. That went down hundreds from some years. Does it mean D.C is safe now? NO, it means it's safer. Can at any time, their crime stats shoot up like any city? Absolutely. But Elmira is so small compared to many cities besides Auburn that it is'nt even fair to compare them. Hey be grateful you chose Syracuse as your city to live in. Although obviously it has it's share of crime, I think it looks much nicer and cleaner than Rochester and Buffalo. It's good that Syracuse didn't get that out of hand. I would rather live in Syracuse than Rochester. But since I lived in Buffalo for six years I would pick Buffalo over it, just because I am more familiar with it. But when I've driven the Salina area (and I have many times) and don't lie it is Syracuses worst area. I didn't think it looked bad at all compared to Roch and Buff. And I did think that there were areas of Elmira that looked just as bad as many areas of Syracuse. You forget all the minorities are not counted in Elmira. The black population is close to 20 percent ( I personally think it's closer to twenty five) many of the minorities that come to sell drugs (and trust me there are alot of them) they are counted. So ethnic stats don't always tell the story. And be honest, how many cities the size of Elmira have as many bi-racial couples between black and white? Be honest, for a city that size I don't know another city that really comes close. At least in upstate. It's a very well blended city. And you and I have talked about this before or agreed with this before. Upstate has had many bi-racial couples for years. There isn't the sort of stigma that many cities carry. For some reason upstate cities were more open to this way before many cities caught on.

Last edited by supermanpansy; 08-11-2011 at 09:53 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 10:15 AM
 
570 posts, read 605,272 times
Reputation: 714
I was born & raised in Elmira, and have lived in Elmira and the surrounding towns (Elmira Heights & Big Flats) for most of my life (with some stints in Florida & downstate NY). Most of my family still lives inside the city, and I have a large number of family & friends in law enforcement in the area. I have worked & gone to college in Elmira.

Elmira has progressively gotten worse throughout the 90s and 00s. The eastside is no longer the only problem area, not by a long shot. Now, rather than having bad & good neighborhoods there are bad & good blocks within each neighborhood (meaning there is no longer a good neighborhood to live & raise a family in). A drive throughout the city on any given day shows plenty of criminal activity (drugs, property crimes, etc), as well as a seemingly large presence of vagrants & homeless people (who spend their nights under the Walnut Street bridge, as anyone who lives in the Walnut St area can attest). This is not nearly the same city as it was back in the 70s, where the 'bad neighborhoods' were confined to the eastside, and the various housing projects. These days, children walking home from both high schools are jumped in broad daylight regularly; teachers are at a loss to handle the difficult kids; the many section 8 renters intimidate and harass neighbors, and absentee landlords do little to clean up their clientele and property. Poverty, lack of good education, lack of jobs, and a drug & gang culture has that effect on an area.

Elmira is a major point on the NYC-Rochester drug pipeline, and many of the trouble makers are originally from those areas. The only 'industries' here are the prisons and the hospitals. The prisons are a major draw for families moving from other NY metro areas to come and be near their family members in prison. Unfortunately they bring their big city problems - drugs, violence and welfare - with them.

Frankly I have never looked at the crime stats for Elmira, because the numbers can always be made to reflect a viewpoint or agenda of the agency compiling them. I am sure the stats do not track the number of kids who feel unsafe in their schools or neighborhoods, or the residents who are afraid to get out and walk their neighborhoods, or work in their own yards. Intimidation isn't factored into the crime stats, and there is plenty of that going on in the city. Anyone who feels this is exaggerating the issue has not spent appreciable time in Elmira.

There are plenty of nice homes to be found (at good prices) and nice residents in Elmira. But why put up with all the negatives when you can move up the Miracle Mile to Horseheads, Big Flats or Corning and avoid most of that?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 10:19 AM
 
30,794 posts, read 35,834,492 times
Reputation: 6143
Wow, where to start. More minorities does not necessarily equal higher crime, as economics play a big part in that.

Actually, many rough Southern cities aren't 80-90% minority and many poor Whites contribute to the crime too.

Elmira is about 18% Black and while that is high for a non-Southern city of its size, it isn't overwhelming. Actually, there isn't a predominately Black census tract or school in the city of Elmira. East side census tracts and schools are in the 30-40% Black range.

Yes, the city/area has seen better days, but there is potential optimism with the growing energy sector close by.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top