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I'm not hugely into local politics but just from common observation, there's certainly been a definite shift in how things are handled... and what is handled (as opposed to ignored) at all. Both the mayor and the county exec's position were previously held by "Good Ol' Boy" types. Not very educated/had little respect for a wider acceptance of culture, had the right families/friends from decades' past to thrust them into office. As a result, it seemed that each seat was always trying to show the other who was boss... who had the most power. NOW, we have two educated people who have sense and seem to want to give to Syracuse what it needs/is capable of... rather than the old way of "I'm powerful! I'm going to milk this rank for all I can, while I can!"
Those two new people happen to be women... and they're consulting with each other, bringing in the right people (ie "green specialists") and including Syracuse University's chancellor (also a woman) to see what her ideas are. SU is a huge asset to this area and shouldn't be ignored... and they aren't, any longer.
Many people Upstate have felt this way for years. I remember as a kid, my grandparents saying Jersey should have NYC. For whatever reason, there does seem to be a lot of animosity between Upstate and Downstate. I hear from both the same things....we're supporting for the other one...they can't survive without us. It certainly would be interesting if there was a split!
I don't think Upstate would be wiped off the face of the map. If done properly and adjusted their taxes for a split and changed the unfriendly business laws, then I think it would be better off.
NYC would get all of their politicians out of Albany. That alone would help Upstate. When was the last time Upstate had a governor? I don't think in my lifetime! Wow, that's sad! It's not like I'm 18 either.
I understand the reasons why there is animosity between the two regions and why many would like to see a split. However I do not believe it will ever happen simply because NYC's revenue is carrying the rest of the state.
If you take a look at NYC GDP as compared to the rest of the state it speaks for itself!
The only reason why NYC carries upstate is because NYC puts forth policies that upstate doesn't want, but has to pay for. Without NYC, these policies would not be in place, therefore upstate would not need the money to pay for them.
Wikipedia statement about NYC
"The New York metropolitan area had approximately gross metropolitan product of $1.13 trillion in 2005,IT Week, the second largest city economy in the world. According to Cinco Dias, New York controlled 40% of the world's finances by the end of 2008, making it the largest financial center in the world."
It is not just about policies. The state does not want to cut NYC off because of the amount of money generated here. In other words it is just too much money to cut loose. $1.13 trillion generated in one city is a huge amount of money! There are entire states around the US that do not generate that kind of money.
I agree with the position of many upstate NY residents but will say this. People want to be associated with winners.....NYC is the jewel in the state crown and having it makes the state of NY look good....at least that is the perception!
Yeah without NYC the policies would not be in place and neither would trillions of dollars for the state. So while upstate residents would no longer have to pay for policies they do not want there would be a $$ shortage someplace and believe me the shortage would be made up by increasing taxes! In the end NYC policies would be gone but you would end up with a new problem. The only solution I believe is for the upstate NY area to develop its own strong identity.
"The New York metropolitan area had approximately gross metropolitan product of $1.13 trillion in 2005,IT Week, the second largest city economy in the world. According to Cinco Dias, New York controlled 40% of the world's finances by the end of 2008, making it the largest financial center in the world."
It is not just about policies. The state does not want to cut NYC off because of the amount of money generated here. In other words it is just too much money to cut loose. $1.13 trillion generated in one city is a huge amount of money! There are entire states around the US that do not generate that kind of money.
I agree with the position of many upstate NY residents but will say this. People want to be associated with winners.....NYC is the jewel in the state crown and having it makes the state of NY look good....at least that is the perception!
Yeah without NYC the policies would not be in place and neither would trillions of dollars for the state. So while upstate residents would no longer have to pay for policies they do not want there would be a $$ shortage someplace and believe me the shortage would be made up by increasing taxes! In the end NYC policies would be gone but you would end up with a new problem. The only solution I believe is for the upstate NY area to develop its own strong identity.
I don't believe there would be a money shortage. It was referenced in another thread that without the NYC metro area, upstate would still be around the 9th largest in GDP in the country, around the same as North Carolina.
I'm not hugely into local politics but just from common observation, there's certainly been a definite shift in how things are handled... and what is handled (as opposed to ignored) at all. Both the mayor and the county exec's position were previously held by "Good Ol' Boy" types. Not very educated/had little respect for a wider acceptance of culture, had the right families/friends from decades' past to thrust them into office. As a result, it seemed that each seat was always trying to show the other who was boss... who had the most power. NOW, we have two educated people who have sense and seem to want to give to Syracuse what it needs/is capable of... rather than the old way of "I'm powerful! I'm going to milk this rank for all I can, while I can!"
Those two new people happen to be women... and they're consulting with each other, bringing in the right people (ie "green specialists") and including Syracuse University's chancellor (also a woman) to see what her ideas are. SU is a huge asset to this area and shouldn't be ignored... and they aren't, any longer.
Exactly and at least their efforts seem to be more visible or tangible.
I don't believe there would be a money shortage. It was referenced in another thread that without the NYC metro area, upstate would still be around the 9th largest in GDP in the country, around the same as North Carolina.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Not that it matters anyway because I doubt it will ever happen.
As I was just saying to JWRocks.....I believe that the revenue generated in NYC carries the rest of the state, making cutting NYC loose very unattractive for obvious reasons! The only true way to gain power in the upstate region would be development that would change the perception of the area and increase its political muscle.
Upstate can develop all it wants, but it needs to set it's own regulations, taxes, and platform that works for its needs, not the needs driven by downstate.
As for NYC carrying the bulk of the state revenue, of course NYC will drive the revenue. It should considering its population. Where and what does the spending of that revenue (which we don't have enough of to cover our expenses) go to? Upstaters (Is the right phrase?) and New Yorkers are very different people (generally). We live and think differently. Upstate NY would still benefit hugely from NYC even if it's a separate state. Upstate NY might also have a greater relationship in working with Ontario and Quebec. Toronto is about 1 1/2-2 1/2 hours just down the road from Buffalo. We are positioned very well in terms of near the two economic and media hubs of the two bigger economic powers in the world.
Upstate can develop all it wants, but it needs to set it's own regulations, taxes, and platform that works for its needs, not the needs driven by downstate.
As for NYC carrying the bulk of the state revenue, of course NYC will drive the revenue. It should considering its population. Where and what does the spending of that revenue (which we don't have enough of to cover our expenses) go to? Upstaters (Is the right phrase?) and New Yorkers are very different people (generally). We live and think differently. Upstate NY would still benefit hugely from NYC even if it's a separate state. Upstate NY might also have a greater relationship in working with Ontario and Quebec. Toronto is about 1 1/2-2 1/2 hours just down the road from Buffalo. We are positioned very well in terms of near the two economic and media hubs of the two bigger economic powers in the world.
Then if NYC is (the breadwinner) carrying the bulk of the revenue for the entire state don't you think that it's interests are going to outweigh the interests of the rest of the state? Not saying that it is fair but this is the way life is.....those with the biggest wallets are in control! My grandmother grew up in Albany all of her teenage years.....this did not stop her from eventually moving here to NYC and living among people who as you say "live and think differently"! Okay we are different....does not mean splitting the state is the only solution. There seems to be too much focus on the differences between upstate NY and NYC.....taking away from the more important fact that we all live in the same state.
When we all (NYC & upstate NY) get passed the "we live & think differently" baggage and begin to pass fairer policies then things will be a lot better for everyone. As I stated previously I do not believe that a splitting of the state of NY will ever happen. Our energy is better spent on creating some policies that will benefit both regions....instead of wasting time on splitting the state as the only solution to the problems.
I do agree that NYC gets too much of it's way with regard to policies....that needs to change. But how can it change when currently upstate NY is not carrying its share of the economic weight? That is where the focus should be....developing upstate NY so that it can carry its economic weight and have more control over its destiny! Not sure if you have ever heard the phrase "No dollar, can't holler"!
Last edited by NewYorkBorn; 07-08-2011 at 08:54 AM..
I do agree that NYC gets too much of it's way with regard to policies....that needs to change. But how can it change when currently upstate NY is not carrying its share of the economic weight? That is where the focus should be....developing upstate NY so that it can carry its economic weight and have more control over its destiny! Not sure if you have ever heard the phrase "No dollar, can't holler"!
In order for us to carry our economic weight, we need more direct control over economic policies.
In order for us to carry our economic weight, we need more direct control over economic policies.
I understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately when someone else is footing the bill their requirements are going to dominate the policy. Trying to have more direct control over economic policies without first being able to pull your weight will continue to fall on death ears. That is like putting the cart before the horse....it will not work.
The only way to have more direct control over economic policies is to first develop and make the region attractive for business's and newcomers. The revenue they will bring will make lawmakers take notice and begin to do things differently. I am not aware of all the ins and outs of upstate NY policies but I am sure that there are some things at the local level that residents will find easier to change. NYC is a good marketing machine....this is how it came to be in its current form today....selling itself. There is no reason upstate NY cannot do the same thing. Will never get solutions to problems by focusing on things that have already been tried and have failed.
Then the next time when upstate NY residents say that they want more control over economic policy those in the government will really have their ears open because upstate NY will be a money maker. Begin with the small policies that upstate NY controls....once those things have changed move on to changing the bigger things.
There is another saying "pay the cost to be the boss"!
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