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You are only one person! If you like having to depend on a car then good for you.
There are a lot of other people who have decided not to live in the upstate NY region because they look at it as being too isolated, car dependent and lacks employment.
I'm not one person. Rochester has one of the shortest commute times in the nation. Driving around Rochester is a breeze.
Isolated? In what way?
Rochester's unemployment is below the national average. It's also lower than New York City's.
I'm not one person. Rochester has one of the shortest commute times in the nation. Driving around Rochester is a breeze.
Isolated? In what way?
Rochester's unemployment is below the national average. It's also lower than New York City's.
You are one person....telling me about your 10 minute commute....as I said good for you! Rochester is not the only city in upstate NY.
Rochester NY was one of the cities listed in the "America's dying cities" article! Let's stop pretending that everything is perfect in Rochester. You don't see NYC on the list of dying cities!
You are one person....telling me about your 10 minute commute....as I said good for you! Rochester is not the only city in upstate NY.
Rochester NY was one of the cities listed in the "America's dying cities" article! Let's stop pretending that everything is perfect in Rochester. You don't see NYC on the list of dying cities!
You are only one person! If you like having to depend on a car then good for you.
There are a lot of other people who have decided not to live in the upstate NY region because they look at it as being too isolated, car dependent and lacks employment.
I don't know if it is isolated, Upstate NY is in a short proximity to other great cities in the US and Canada. For instance, Syracuse is within a 5 hour or less drive of cities like Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore and DC, along with NYC. That's not counting the major Upstate cities, Finger Lakes, Lake Ontario, the Adirondacks and the 1000 Islands.
There is public transportation available, even in many more rural/small town areas. Unemployment rates are much lower than people realize too. Granted that you can't go chasing smokestacks like you could in the past, but if you have some education past. HS, you have a good chance of finding something, especially in health care, higher education, some tech/engineering jobs and in risk management/insurance, among others.
Of course upstate NY residents pay taxes....no one implied that you don't! As I said a couple of posts ago....NYC as the breadwinner carrying most of the revenue for the entire state will of course demand that its interests come first. My mother used to tell us that if we wanted to be grown and not follow her rules we should move out and pay our own bills! The analogy is the same here.....upstate NY residents want to control policy, do not want NYC telling you what to do then it must first develop itself so that it can stand on its own economically and get out of NYC's house! We have a political system in this country where the majority rules!
Splitting the state will NEVER HAPPEN. We will just have to agree to disagree on that. Upstate NY will reach its full potential when public transportation becomes a priority. One of the many reasons so large of a population have chosen to live in NYC is because of the abundant transportation options....no one wants to be isolated, have to depend on a car to get everywhere or have no choice but to spend hours everyday commuting for work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn
You are only one person! If you like having to depend on a car then good for you.
There are a lot of other people who have decided not to live in the upstate NY region because they look at it as being too isolated, car dependent and lacks employment.
Remember what I said, people upstate live and think differently. We are not interested in being NYC. A lot of residents may like visiting NYC (and I know quite a few who hate going to places like NYC and LA), but they have no interest living in overpopulated, dense cities. We like our cars and trucks (snow certainly plays a role in that), we like space, we like our natural landscape. I think you're overestimating the public transportation needs and general support from upstate New Yorkers. We do not have a transportation problem (Getting around is rather easy). We have an economic and jobs problem. People who grow up here, go to college, then have to go to other places like a NYC or down south to find good jobs.
You keep comparing NYC to the upstate. These two worlds couldn't be farther apart.
Last edited by Wolfpacker; 07-10-2011 at 10:52 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker
Remember what I said, people upstate live and think differently. We are not interested in being NYC. A lot of residents may like visiting NYC (and I know quite a few who hate going to places like NYC and LA), but they have no interest living in overpopulated, dense cities. We like our cars and trucks (snow certainly plays a role in that), we like space, we like our natural landscape. I think you're overestimating the public transportation needs and general support from upstate New Yorkers. We do not have a transportation problem (Getting around is rather easy). We have an economic and jobs problem. People who grow up here, go to college, then have to go to other places like a NYC or down south to find good jobs.
You keep comparing NYC to the upstate. These two worlds couldn't be farther apart.
I think this is a very valid statement. One thing most advocates of light rail/mass transit never look at is where is the destination once they arrive?Unlike years ago cities regardless of size do not have a real downtown buisness core. How will the person get to the companies location? Odds are they will be located in suburban locations.
Also look at it from a buisness perspective, if you have a meeting in Syracuse do you a) drive 4/5 hours from NYC, b) Fly, c) Take the train (4/5 hrs est.). Odds are you would fly because even after the train ride you would probably need to get a rental car/cab to get to the meeting as you would with flying.
Upstate and other smaller cities really need to stop and figure out what they want to be. I don't mean that negitively, but lets face it what was 50+ years ago is gone and ain't coming back any time soon.
As stated above NYC and upstate are two completly different worlds. Maybe the answer is like when a Walmart is planned to come into a small town area. Most locals freak because it will close the "small buisnesses". But small buisness does survive the key is looking at where they can provide how/what Walmart doesn't. Not all make it but many do and they continue to thrive. Upstate needs the same approach what can they provide that NYC Metro doesn't? Once that can be identified then they can start moving forward.
Also look at it from a buisness perspective, if you have a meeting in Syracuse do you a) drive 4/5 hours from NYC, b) Fly, c) Take the train (4/5 hrs est.). Odds are you would fly because even after the train ride you would probably need to get a rental car/cab to get to the meeting as you would with flying.
Not disagreeing with your post at all... but I just wanted to clarify getting Amtrak to "suburban business location."
The bus system (Centro) doesn't go to the airport (I have NO idea why... buses go all the way around it) but it DOES go to the Amtrak station. And since the bus system could even get one as far as Oswego, it could almost certainly bring him to the business. Friends of mine are flying up from the Triangle area of NC this week. They'll fly to JFK>Hancock, walk to the end of the airport road (about a mile? Again, it's moronic that Centro doesn't pull in there at all) to catch a bus downtown, switch buses for the eastern suburbs and get "home."
Flying to/from JFK just makes sense though... it's a 50-minute flight and runs around $100. I wouldn't drive.
Not disagreeing with your post at all... but I just wanted to clarify getting Amtrak to "suburban business location."
The bus system (Centro) doesn't go to the airport (I have NO idea why... buses go all the way around it) but it DOES go to the Amtrak station. And since the bus system could even get one as far as Oswego, it could almost certainly bring him to the business. Friends of mine are flying up from the Triangle area of NC this week. They'll fly to JFK>Hancock, walk to the end of the airport road (about a mile? Again, it's moronic that Centro doesn't pull in there at all) to catch a bus downtown, switch buses for the eastern suburbs and get "home."
Flying to/from JFK just makes sense though... it's a 50-minute flight and runs around $100. I wouldn't drive.
Especially with Jet Blue having direct flights back and forth for probably even less than $100, depending upon when you get the tickets.
Also, I think Upstate NY knows what it is, but it can be more complex, as it could be a state in and of itself. I think some of the cities up here are trying to build up from the inside out, with more housing, festivals/events, nightlife in Downtown districts. There is enough density with those cities for it to be pretty successful and also real and potential development, as well as room for improvement for others to move to these neighborhoods in these cities as well. It is also nice that you could get these things, while also being able to "escape" to the outdoors or to rural/small town communities with something to offer in a very short time. Even with the the tax RATES(key word), cost of living is still pretty low and even on par with many Southern metros, when all things are considered. So, it could be a matter of exposure.
I just find it rather humorous that NewYorkBorn says us upstaters spend "hours commuting" when, in reality, we have the shortest commute times in the nation.
I don't know if it is isolated, Upstate NY is in a short proximity to other great cities in the US and Canada. For instance, Syracuse is within a 5 hour or less drive of cities like Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore and DC, along with NYC. That's not counting the major Upstate cities, Finger Lakes, Lake Ontario, the Adirondacks and the 1000 Islands.
There is public transportation available, even in many more rural/small town areas. Unemployment rates are much lower than people realize too. Granted that you can't go chasing smokestacks like you could in the past, but if you have some education past. HS, you have a good chance of finding something, especially in health care, higher education, some tech/engineering jobs and in risk management/insurance, among others.
I do not personally feel that it is isolated....but there are others who I have spoken to that mention isolation along with lack of jobs and not having better access to NYC as the reason they will not live there.
Personally I think it is a beautiful place and with some more development could attract new people and business's which could be good for everyone.
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