Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In NY of coarse we pour through fuel like drunken sailors heating our houses. The South has potential for a much lower carbon footprint but people here keep saying there utility bills are high due to the AC, and with rates being much lower in the South that means people are not taking advantage of it.
Another thing Americans do, and NY is as bad as anywhere, is abandoned dense city cores where you can walk anywhere in favor of suburbs. Mass transit here ranges from none to terrible. Thousands of houses sit empty while suburbs fill up. People get up and flip on lights, turn on the coffee maker, play on the computer, take long hot showers, blow dry there hair all the while in a completely climate controlled environment. They then fire up the Belchfire 2000 and drive 10+ miles to work. Many older people in this area have never driven in there lives now every house has 3 cars.
As long as we, us, you and me, everyone keeps demanding more power they will have to keep finding more. Not just keeping up with current demand, finding MORE. And more and more. And more. WE are the problem.
BTW NY lost 2 seats in Congress. If this NG thing works out and the South has continued bad luck that may very well turn around. Can't have it both ways.
Also BTW the radio behind me (WMCR 106.3FM) just stated 60% of NYers are in favor of fracking the pee out of NY.
You're forgetting all the products which require oil in their production -- siding, roofing, the gizmos and gadgets we like to play with, the plastic containers beverages and food come in, the clothes we wear, the carpet on the floor --- the list is endless.
Curtailing the use of oil as a heating product and allowing hydrofracked gas to take it's place, still doesn't eliminate the use of oil. It does, however, destroy more natural resources.
I certainly do not condone being piggish and wasteful with oil.
Humans need to change their habits -- small changes at first make it easier to build to larger ones. CDF bulbs, using paper or cloth bags from home for shopping, not taking a separate new plastic bag for each fruit of veggie -- reuse older ones -- carpool, share a rides to the store or bike or walk, avoid synthetic clothing when possible, consider slate or metal roofing, wood siding options, wood flooring, green building methods, solar energy to supplement the home....
The concept does sound overwhelming to some, but when taken a small step at a time, it isn't that bad.
In NY of coarse we pour through fuel like drunken sailors heating our houses. The South has potential for a much lower carbon footprint but people here keep saying there utility bills are high due to the AC, and with rates being much lower in the South that means people are not taking advantage of it.
Another thing Americans do, and NY is as bad as anywhere, is abandoned dense city cores where you can walk anywhere in favor of suburbs. Mass transit here ranges from none to terrible. Thousands of houses sit empty while suburbs fill up. People get up and flip on lights, turn on the coffee maker, play on the computer, take long hot showers, blow dry there hair all the while in a completely climate controlled environment. They then fire up the Belchfire 2000 and drive 10+ miles to work. Many older people in this area have never driven in there lives now every house has 3 cars.
As long as we, us, you and me, everyone keeps demanding more power they will have to keep finding more. Not just keeping up with current demand, finding MORE. And more and more. And more. WE are the problem.
BTW NY lost 2 seats in Congress. If this NG thing works out and the South has continued bad luck that may very well turn around. Can't have it both ways.
Also BTW the radio behind me (WMCR 106.3FM) just stated 60% of NYers are in favor of fracking the pee out of NY.
Syracuse is one of the least sprawled cities that I have seen. It basically encompasses only one county, Onondaga. From the northwest tip of Onondaga County to the southeast corner, the county is 42 miles as the crow flies. And much of this land isn't even covered in homes or businesses. Syracuse is a pretty compact city.
Take NYC. From the far west suburban edge (I'd say around Hackettstown, NJ) to the far eastern edge (Riverhead, NY), its 125 miles wide. Its a monster and its nothing but suburb after suburb running into each other with no real open space in between.
Electricity is made 3 main ways in the US, coal NG and nukes, of which NG is number two. None of the other ways matter at this point as those three are 88%. Coal is king but its very dirty so we have been trying to move away from it. So here in the real World if we are to move away from coal we need more NG or more nukes. Its really just that simple. Population is growing and so are the number of toys with cords. Also the rest of the World is seeing all our neat stuff and they want to play to. A case could be made that we are arguing about relitivly clean NG on computers powered by dirty coal.
Quote:
Humans need to change their habits -- small changes at first make it easier to build to larger ones. CDF bulbs, using paper or cloth bags from home for shopping, not taking a separate new plastic bag for each fruit of veggie -- reuse older ones -- carpool, share a rides to the store or bike or walk, avoid synthetic clothing when possible, consider slate or metal roofing, wood siding options, wood flooring, green building methods, solar energy to supplement the home...
I know I am the big bad right-winger Earth trasher but its funny, using your list, I have good creds........
All my bulbs have been CDF for at least 10 years
I shop at Sams so no bags of any kind.
I have ridden my bike to work for the most part for 14 years
Most of my cloths are cotton
My house has wood siding, slate roof and wood floors. I wanted it that way and in fact if it was anywhere but NY it would still be my dream house, love this place.
I don't think NY gets enough Sun to ever show a return on the energy used in making the panels.
I past several abandoned houses just a ½ hour ago. NYers are terrible about this. Building the greenest house in the World is still less green then just moving into one that already built. And most new house are built just as you said, out of oil. Anyone building a new "green" house in the suburbs while letting an existing house collapse in a city is having a negative environmental impact and is voting FOR fracking whether they want to believe it or not. Its like driving a Prius, it makes them feel good about themselves while ignoring the fact that making that new Prius used way more resources then just keeping what they had. We will ignore for now the stupid new electric cars that will require even more NG to be fracked.
Until a replacement is in place and running its us that are driving the need for more and more fossil fuels. Its not the energy companies, they are just giving us what we want, no DEMAND!!! Blaming them is like blaming the beer companies when one has a headache after a wild night out. And if there is a solution it will not be the energy companies finding it, why would they hurt themselves. And for a fact it will not be our worthless Government. Government has actually made it worse with stupid social engineering policies that drove people out of the cities in the first place. Anyone is free to find the answer and sell it. They can become filthy rich or donate the money to save dancing bears in Romania but first they need to step up.
I'd vote for nuclear personally. We have ability in 2011 to build these plants safely, and not make the mistakes that the Japanese did. No emissions other than steam, and the spent fuel can also be recycled:
Vermont is powered almost exclusively on nuclear, and it think it can be argued that VT is a very clean state. I have drank water directly from many mountaintop streams in VT with no issue; you wouldn't catch me drinking anything out of the orange streams here in this state. Any proposition to fracking in Vermont, I would guarantee would be prevented by the citizens of that state. I just hope NYers and the US as a whole wakes up and doesn't destroy something that can't be remediated, like a water supply.
I agree, Sean, solar is not really a viable option upstate. Outside a few places in central PA and Mount Washington, NH, SYR gets the least amount of reliable sunlight in the northeast annual (though you do pretty well during the summer months, winter is a killer)
I want nukes myself. Can you imagine the up roar in NY if anyone tried putting up a new nuke plant??
I don't know the people here personally but I now local people that are "green". And every one, every single one, lives in those 3000 sq/ft houses on the hill, drive a GIANT SUV, work 20+ miles away from here, keep the house at 65 all Summer and 75 all Winter and have every electronic gizmo know to man. They don't care about the environment one bit, they just don't want to have to see it and of coarse they want to feel good about themselves. Put the Say No to Fracking sign out front and jump in the Tahoe to drive 5 miles for a loaf of bread.
Meanwhile I actually do things to help the Earth, for my daughter frankly I'll be dead before anything to bad happens, and I'm the bad guy because while I only set my heat on 50 I do in fact want the NG flowing for my 50.
Electricity is made 3 main ways in the US, coal NG and nukes, of which NG is number two. None of the other ways matter at this point as those three are 88%. Coal is king but its very dirty so we have been trying to move away from it. So here in the real World if we are to move away from coal we need more NG or more nukes. Its really just that simple. Population is growing and so are the number of toys with cords. Also the rest of the World is seeing all our neat stuff and they want to play to. A case could be made that we are arguing about relitivly clean NG on computers powered by dirty coal.
. While it may burn cleaner, the process of obtaining it via hydrofracking is (to me) no better than strip mining
Quote:
I know I am the big bad right-winger Earth trasher but its funny, using your list, I have good creds........
All my bulbs have been CDF for at least 10 years
I shop at Sams so no bags of any kind.
I have ridden my bike to work for the most part for 14 years
Most of my cloths are cotton
My house has wood siding, slate roof and wood floors. I wanted it that way and in fact if it was anywhere but NY it would still be my dream house, love this place.
I don't think NY gets enough Sun to ever show a return on the energy used in making the panels.
I past several abandoned houses just a ½ hour ago. NYers are terrible about this. Building the greenest house in the World is still less green then just moving into one that already built. And most new house are built just as you said, out of oil. Anyone building a new "green" house in the suburbs while letting an existing house collapse in a city is having a negative environmental impact and is voting FOR fracking whether they want to believe it or not. Its like driving a Prius, it makes them feel good about themselves while ignoring the fact that making that new Prius used way more resources then just keeping what they had. We will ignore for now the stupid new electric cars that will require even more NG to be fracked.
Until a replacement is in place and running its us that are driving the need for more and more fossil fuels. Its not the energy companies, they are just giving us what we want, no DEMAND!!! Blaming them is like blaming the beer companies when one has a headache after a wild night out. And if there is a solution it will not be the energy companies finding it, why would they hurt themselves. And for a fact it will not be our worthless Government. Government has actually made it worse with stupid social engineering policies that drove people out of the cities in the first place. Anyone is free to find the answer and sell it. They can become filthy rich or donate the money to save dancing bears in Romania but first they need to step up.
With regard to green building: I am a preservationist and in business restore a lot of older homes. I am also a huge fan of repurposing old structures as opposed to tearing down and building anew. One problem we face are EPA restrictions (RRP anyone?) and proper asbestos abatement which adds to the expense. Sometimes homeowners can be educated and understand the long term benefits to restoring; others have the 'newer is better' Bic lighter mentality.
Long Island gets enough sun that solar installations will significantly reduce the homeowner's need for overpriced electricity from LIPA. I've had friends tell me about their meters spinning backwards on occasions. It is unfortunate that too many people are interested in who long it will take to see a return on their investment vs. The Big Picture -- further reducing the need for oil and gas.
I'm not talking about the ROI, I'm talking about the impact of making the panels themselves. Lotta bad stuff making them and China ain't got a real good record.
I'll post a link to one story but will not stand behind the science, its just a Goggle. In Nevada or some place I can see the good maybe out weighing the bad but up here I think its more about feeling good.
Syracuse is one of the least sprawled cities that I have seen. It basically encompasses only one county, Onondaga. From the northwest tip of Onondaga County to the southeast corner, the county is 42 miles as the crow flies. And much of this land isn't even covered in homes or businesses. Syracuse is a pretty compact city.
Take NYC. From the far west suburban edge (I'd say around Hackettstown, NJ) to the far eastern edge (Riverhead, NY), its 125 miles wide. Its a monster and its nothing but suburb after suburb running into each other with no real open space in between.
NYC is comprised of 5 boroughs -- none in NJ. Two are geographically on Long Island (Brooklyn and Queens) but share little in common with the two counties considered Long Island -- Nassau and Suffolk.
You know little about LI if you think it is endless suburbs and that the greater metropolitan area ends at Riverhead. Geographic LI is approx 121 miles long. Eastern LI has farms, vineyards and large properties. Eastern LI starts west of Riverhead. Nassau and Western Suffolk are more densely populated (there are a few cities in Nassau) as a result of it's proximity to NYC for ease of commute. I am 50 miles from midtown; many people here do not commute to NYC as it is a 2 hour train ride in, not including subways or buses once in Manhattan.
Those of us on Long Island pay one of the higher electric rates in the country. That has caused people to start looking into alternatives. We almost had a nuke plant (Shoreham in Wading River) but protests in the late 70's-early 80's were successful in shutting it down before it ever went online. We've been stuck paying the bill for it for decades. The LNG barge intended for the LI Sound (not far from the Shoreham site) was blocked. NIMBYs blocked the wind farm off Jones Beach, but have no problem with Trump building a fancy restaurant public beach goers can afford.
Many homes have been converting to natural gas as it is available in many areas here. I use it for cooking and my dryer, and to heat my carriage house. My own house is heated by oil. The system is still too new to abandon.
I'd vote for nuclear personally. We have ability in 2011 to build these plants safely, and not make the mistakes that the Japanese did. No emissions other than steam, and the spent fuel can also be recycled:
Vermont is powered almost exclusively on nuclear, and it think it can be argued that VT is a very clean state. I have drank water directly from many mountaintop streams in VT with no issue; you wouldn't catch me drinking anything out of the orange streams here in this state. Any proposition to fracking in Vermont, I would guarantee would be prevented by the citizens of that state. I just hope NYers and the US as a whole wakes up and doesn't destroy something that can't be remediated, like a water supply.
My second home is in VT. My power is supplied through CVPS.
According to their website, only 50% of their energy is created by nuclear.
It is unlikely that VTers would welcome fracking, given the opposition I witnessed to wind farms in some areas. Like SYR, VT spends a great deal of the late Fall - early spring under a grey cloud cover, making it unwise to opt for solar.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
