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Old 09-04-2007, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Niagara Peninsula, Ontario, Canada
131 posts, read 739,839 times
Reputation: 49

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Alternatively, WNY could secede to Canada

Southern Ontario's economy is booming, yet we've suffered the same manufacturing decline as WNY, but are bouncing back. Ontario probably has more in common and can identify more with WNYs economic issues than NYC can.

And we'd love to have your very affordable Lake Ontario waterfront property
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:12 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 6,831,471 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by warm heatherette View Post
Alternatively, WNY could secede to Canada

Southern Ontario's economy is booming, yet we've suffered the same manufacturing decline as WNY, but are bouncing back. Ontario probably has more in common and can identify more with WNYs economic issues than NYC can.

And we'd love to have your very affordable Lake Ontario waterfront property
Haha, very nice. What's the point in them being separate anyway...half of Western NY is constantly on your side of Niagara Falls (AKA the good side of the Falls)! We'd save so much time not having to go through customs!
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:44 PM
 
Location: between here and there
1,030 posts, read 3,070,980 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCop View Post
What's the point? Without NYC, Upstate would fall to shambles.
To the contrary: upstate funds downstate. My $6400 dollars I pay right now on a home in a small town outside of Rochester that is accessed at $190,000 is not ALL going to said small town; it's filtered down to the city. That is the exact reason upstate is in such a shambles. And NYS will continue to deteriorate at an ever increasing rate.... I see no answer as the powers that be are tunnel visioned and it's all for the city with some pacifying lip service for the rest of us. Yes, we should annex off from NYC: North New York; and salvage what's left of a dismal economic mess. I give it 4 years and if it's depressed even more, we will be moving out of state.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:58 PM
 
80 posts, read 358,209 times
Reputation: 24
Below is a link to a Letter to the Editor that was printed in todays Albany Times Union. I'm not saying I agree with it but just posting because it directly relates to this topic:

Downstate subsidizes upstate money needs -- Page 1 -- Times Union - Albany NY (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=618773&category=LETTER&BCCode=&n ewsdate=9/4/2007 - broken link)

After some searches I have not been able to determine if the writer, Gregory Bruno, is any relation to Joe Bruno.

I believe this may be the report at CGR: A nonprofit center for objective policy analysis and pragmatic change that he is referring to (you will probably have to subscribe to the site to view this one but it is a free and quick process).

CGR - Center for Governmental Research, Inc. - Login (broken link)

Again, I'm not saying I agree with the above and I don't have the time right now to sort through the report.

Any opinions?

Last edited by Miker; 09-04-2007 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:04 PM
 
80 posts, read 358,209 times
Reputation: 24
After posting the above and trying the links myself I see that you will have to subscribe at cgr.org in order to view the report. After you subscribe, select Reports. Then select the subject "Public Finance" then click search. The report is currently the 8th one returned. It's titled "Balance of Revenue & Expenditure Among NYS Regions: Fiscal Years 4/1/97-3/31/98 Thru 4/1/00-3/31/01"

Last edited by Miker; 09-04-2007 at 05:19 PM..
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL; Upstate NY native
217 posts, read 877,201 times
Reputation: 118
While I do think upstate and the NYC region do not even belong in the same state, without downstate, I think the population of New York would decline even further. The bulk of NY's growth is because of NYC. Let's face it, most of upstate is struggling. While I don't think New York would collapse without downstate, I don't think we would be as prosperous as a state.
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
253 posts, read 1,271,724 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCop View Post
What's the point? Without NYC, Upstate would fall to shambles.
Yeah... gotta call BS on this... Whats NYC done for upstate?...Seriously, I can't think of a single thing. NYC sucks up all the money from Albany. What money we do get from NYS we could do with our own high taxes if Albany wasn't talking most of it. Not to mention anyone elected to state offices automatically caters to NYC and NYC alone. -- cause there is more votes down there than in all of Upstate NY combined.

Look, I like NYC, but dont start acting like we need the city .. cause we don't, its irrelevant to anything going on upstate. We are not connected culturally or economically. Relocate some of those giant firms and skyscrapers up here, then we'll talk about us needing you
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Cream Ridge, NJ
445 posts, read 1,978,438 times
Reputation: 280
Why in the world is everyone fighting over space on a little island called Manhattan. New York is a big state. Why not make another NYC upstate. Get some investors together and lets go.
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:48 PM
 
Location: between here and there
1,030 posts, read 3,070,980 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallylady46 View Post
While I do think upstate and the NYC region do not even belong in the same state, without downstate, I think the population of New York would decline even further. The bulk of NY's growth is because of NYC. Let's face it, most of upstate is struggling. While I don't think New York would collapse without downstate, I don't think we would be as prosperous as a state.
Is it feasible that a lot of the reason upstate is in such dire straits is because our monies go south? Does anyone have any idea what it costs to run NYC 24/7? And don't forget the heavy burden of welfare dependent residents and you have a lot of money that never sees stitch of upstate........
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:51 PM
 
3,495 posts, read 9,375,649 times
Reputation: 1514
Downstate (NYC) is not draining Upstate's money away. But with Upstate representing only 1/3 of the State's population, the weight given to Downstate interests and ideas in New York State government and politics does have an impact on Upstate.

Here is why Upstate NY should secede if Spitzer does not fix the Upstate economy.....***Politics and costs are imposed on the Upstate NY economy in ways that would not happen if Upstate were a standalone state on its own.***

For example, if Upstate was on its own without NYC... Upstate would never have a Medicaid program, which is very expensive and helps push property taxes to the highest level in the country. The NYS Medicaid program alone accounts for roughly 40 percent of the State budget. Then the State of New York passes the burden on to the county level via unfunded mandates. Thus Upstate NY county governments need to come up with millions of dollars each year to fund a State program. In Onondaga County County Executive Nick Pirro has been quoted to say that taxes could be cut in half if the State eliminated the Medicaid program.

Quote from a NY Times article:

"New York's Medicaid program is by far the most expensive and most generous in the nation. It spends far more - now $44.5 billion annually - than that of any other state, even California, whose Medicaid program covers about 55 percent more people."
New York Medicaid Fraud May Reach Into Billions - New York Times

Last edited by bellafinzi; 09-04-2007 at 09:10 PM..
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