Divide New York into Two States? (Buffalo, Syracuse: unemployment, taxes, prices)

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by chrisruns2far

Upstate NY's problems are often bigger than what the state can provide or propose, the root cause lies in the fact that the line between the Federal Government and Corporations has been dissolved to the point where they are one in the same.

In my opinion this is the biggest problem and has nothing to do with this myth of NYC sucking upstate dry. Any jobs in this country that can be outsourced have been outsourced. In some cases corporations have even received tax breaks to send jobs overseas. The "trickle-down" economy certainly hasn't played out as it was envisioned, making American manufacturing the equivalent of fiscal suicide and re-distributing that blue collar money up to the top.

It's hurting NYC and the surrounding areas too, the only difference is that because NYC is such a major player in the world economy (and always has been), it's been able to adapt easier. The eventual result of this pattern is playing itself out everywhere, including NYC/Long Island/Hudson Valley: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The middle class is getting pushed down and pushed out everywhere you go. The only way to reverse this is by ending the reliance on overseas labor. That's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned, but I'm no expert....I'd like to hear what anyone else thinks of that.

Why do you guys think your property taxes are financing anything downstate? They aren't. It's the other way around, as has been shown in this thread a few times now. Look at how your taxes break down, I bet you most of it goes to your local school district, which surely isn't located in the NYC metro area. The Medicaid article was a real eye-opener, but I don't see how this is solely "downstates" fault, the other issues brought up seem pretty small scale to me, or even solely related to some kind of "image" nonsense. I think it all pales in comparison to the rape of the manufacturing industry, which can't really be blamed on any part of NYS.

Lastly, I'd just like to mention that the new license plates suck and they should go back to having the Statue of Liberty on them.

[I'minformed2]

haha...the "new" license plates are 7 years old now And they represent the whole STATE and not just NYC and the Statue of Liberty (which is actually technically in New Jersey anyways)

[chrisruns2far]

[quote=sean sean sean sean;2003564]In my opinion this is the biggest problem and has nothing to do with this myth of NYC sucking upstate dry. Any jobs in this country that can be outsourced have been outsourced. In some cases corporations have even received tax breaks to send jobs overseas. The "trickle-down" economy certainly hasn't played out as it was envisioned, making American manufacturing the equivalent of fiscal suicide and re-distributing that blue collar money up to the top.

It's hurting NYC and the surrounding areas too, the only difference is that because NYC is such a major player in the world economy (and always has been), it's been able to adapt easier. The eventual result of this pattern is playing itself out everywhere, including NYC/Long Island/Hudson Valley: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The middle class is getting pushed down and pushed out everywhere you go. The only way to reverse this is by ending the reliance on overseas labor. That's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned, but I'm no expert....I'd like to hear what anyone else thinks of that.

I could not agree more with your post. Flawed trade policy and the pursuit of cheap labor, cheap products (and low quaility) and cheap food and no labor or environmental regulations has undermined the middle class. For the first time in American history, the current younger work force generation has a shorter life expectancy than that of their parents due to an outright lack of health care and preventative care benefits or benefit packages that cost more and more to the employee each year and whose detuctables get higher and higher, unless you work for the government. Also, by and large, our middle class is stressed out making ends meets, paying the highest percentage of their salaries to taxes and receiving fewer and fewer benefits and programs from state and federal governments. The stark reaility is that real middle class wages in this country have been stagnant since 1980, despite the American work force being far and away the most productive work force on the planet.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Upstate suffers economically because NYS is a high-cost place to do business. Everyone knows this. Companies leave the state to go to lower-cost locations, both in the USA and abroad.

NYC is by far the highest cost city in highest-cost state. So, why is it prospering?

It's simple, NYC does not have to compete on price.

NYC's economy and the jobs it generates are based on a few very unique industries: finance, media/entertainment, advertising, art, and fashion. These businesses are based in NYC because they have to be. Price is no object. Is Wall Street going to move to Charlotte? Will NBC move to Mexico? Are Ralph Lauren and Donna Karan going to pack up and move to Tennessee? Is Broadway going to relocate to Alabama?

Also, this unique nexus of finance, media, art, fashion and culture has a way of spinning off even more economic activity because of the wealth it creates. Wall street millionaires frequent art galleries. Media executives dress themselves in the latest designer fashions, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, Upstate exists at a distincly lower altitude and has to compete for any industrial development it can get, most often on price.

[I'minformed2]

^^ bingo. the regulations and red tape that cause upstate to stagnate keep NYC in balance...thus; if the state were divided in two; the NYC area would continue to be the same as it is now, and Upstate would be able to get its eceonomy going at a much better rate.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

Upstate suffers economically because NYS is a high-cost place to do business. Everyone knows this. Companies leave the state to go to lower-cost locations, both in the USA and abroad.

NYC is by far the highest cost city in highest-cost state. So, why is it prospering?

It's simple, NYC does not have to compete on price.

NYC's economy and the jobs it generates are based on a few very unique industries: finance, media/entertainment, advertising, art, and fashion. These businesses are based in NYC because they have to be. Price is no object. Is Wall Street going to move to Charlotte? Will NBC move to Mexico? Are Ralph Lauren and Donna Karan going to pack up and move to Tennessee? Is Broadway going to relocate to Alabama?

Also, this unique nexus of finance, media, art, fashion and culture has a way of spinning off even more economic activity because of the wealth it creates. Wall street millionaires frequent art galleries. Media executives dress themselves in the latest designer fashions, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, Upstate exists at a distincly lower altitude and has to compete for any industrial development it can get, most often on price.

Really great post, UpstaterInBklyn! I've had a hard time explaining to people what you just posted. You've explained it perfectly here.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Here is a crystal-clear example of how one set of rules does not work in two places: The "Scaffold Law".

In most states, construction workers who are injured on the job receive only worker's compensation benefits and disability. They may not sue their employer for their injuries. A special section of the New York Labor Law, known as the "Scaffold Law," allows injured workers to bring lawsuits against the construction company, the scaffold company etc.

This makes sense in NYC, where there are (obviously) lots of tall buildings and construction work is more dangerous. However, this greatly increases costs across the state for every construction project. In NYC, real estate is so valuable that the extra costs are always recouped. When you can put up a condo building and sell the units for more than $1 million each, a few million more in the construction budget is no big deal.

A simple change in the law that would make it only apply to certain areas is all that's needed. However, this law is a cash-cow for personal injury attornies across the state, who own the Albany politicians, so it stays in place.

[I'minformed2]

Can we give Albany to Massachusetts for a fair price? (we would probably have to pay them to take it; but it would be one large amount of money most NY taxpayers would be happy to give to the cause)

[UpstaterInBklyn]

I think it's time revive this thread.

The NYC Council's most vociferous member is calling for "secession"... again.

A Secession Plan Is Floated for New York City - January 30, 2008 - The New York Sun

My favorite quote: "The city needs upstate — it's where the city gets its water. It dumps its prisoners upstate,"

[newyorkborn&raised]

This stuff again?