Divide New York into Two States? (Buffalo, Rochester: quality of life, live in, area code)

[UpstaterInBklyn]

I thought this would be an interesting topic of discussion:

Would dividing NYS into two states, Upstate and NYC, be a good idea?

If so, how should each individual state conduct it's affairs?

I was born and raised in Buffalo, and now live in NYC, so I've seen the state's economic/political nexus from both sides.

The reality is ALL political power and decision-making for NYS happens in NYC, for the benefit of NYC. And the fact is, that the economy and culture of NYC vs. Upstate are complete opposites. In NYC the top issues are 1) Affordable housing, 2) Quality of life issues (traffic, noise, etc.), and 3) The environment. In Upstate, the top three issues are 1) Economic/job growth, 1) Economic/job growth, and 3) Economic/job growth.

The two parts of the state have diametrically opposite needs. I am a devoted, small-government, Jeffersonian Libertarian, but I can see how a some 'big government' is actually necessary down here, to keep the City livable. Upstate, however, has its economy suffocated by big government.

I sincerely believe that NYS should be divided into two states, with the border cutting across the northern edge of Orange/Putnam counties. However the new state of "Upper New York" would not be successful unless it adopted small-government, low-tax policies and encouraged entreprenuership.

[I'minformed2]

it would be a great idea....everything Syracuse on westward as one state, and everything east of there another....keep Albany seperate from Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo PLEASE! I've always thought that NY should be split into 2 states...and not just "upstate" and "downstate/nyc". Unfortunately its not at all a realistic goal.

[livecontent]

Can the borders of states be changed?? Are the boundaries that exist so sacred that they cannot never be altered, even at the expense of future wants and needs.

Maybe we need to look at it another way by not creating another state but by
separating NYC above Duchess County and divide the rest of the state among bordering states. Western NY to Ohio; Southern Tier to Pennsylvania; and Albany, Upper Hudson, Adirondacks to Vermont. These areas, culturally and economically, may be more in tune with the neighboring states. The acquiring states will have more of an incentive to develop and show interest in these areas.

It is apparent that New York City and the suburbs do not care about the rest of the state and the narcissistic "The City" can do what it wants. And if we do it right, maybe we can give Northern New Jersey to NYC, since it is under this sphere of influence.

We then can go and look at other state boundaries and change them, where it would make more economic and cultural sense. After all, the states are an administrative area and the country is becoming similar from coast to coast--maybe a little altering of these boundaries would be good. Some of the separations of states were a result of the politics of the time and the western territories were divided before they established their economic spheres of influence.

Do we need a separate North and South Dakota??

Why does Wyoming have the same senatorial representation as California, when Wyoming has very little people.

California may be too big of a administrative nightmare for any state. Perhaps two separate states should be created.

It is time to look at these issues and, of course, avoid any gerrymandering.

[Dr Funky]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

AND YES!!



And we need to get rid of the "New York" name. Let them keep their state, we will form our own one....

[averagenyjoe]

Originally Posted by i'minformed

it would be a great idea....everything Syracuse on westward as one state, and everything east of there another....keep Albany seperate from Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo PLEASE! I've always thought that NY should be split into 2 states...and not just "upstate" and "downstate/nyc". Unfortunately its not at all a realistic goal.

First of all, Cant believe someone hasnt thought of this thread sooner, this is a topic that NEEDS to be discussed and kept on the front burner till something is done.

I understand your line of reasoning "iminformed", I really do. But I fear for many of the areas around Albany. My plan would put Dutchess & Green on south as one state and the rest as a new state under a new name as one suggested, I'd give up the New York name. With this new allignment, I would put the new Capital in possibly Syracuse being more central, taking away the power from the polluted Albany "system". then Albany could be remolded. The people in the rest of the 518 area code would be forever thankful for spanking that powerbase. the Albany elite would get their drawers in a bunch, take their little pale & shovel and run off to NYC.
Just something I would think through. If your plan wins than my stuff will get onto the thruway and ease on westward :-) Which I hope will no longer be a toll road

[Moth]

Although there is precedent (West Virginia splitting off from Virginia), at the end of the day its actually a bad idea, however tempting.

The regional differences in New York as described above are true enough. However, you could say this about pretty much all the States in the Union.

Northern Virginia is a universe away from the rest of the commonwealth. Maryland is composed of the Eastern Shore, the DC burbs and the mountain areas. California has so much regional variety its mind blowing. I doubt people in Miami feel akin to those in Pensacola.

No, pressure Albany to behave better or vote them out. Dividing up States would become a temptation used for nefarious reasons thus spawning ever more corruption and cronyism. Its a tremendous and ultimately unrealistic leap of faith to think that delineating new borders would be done with anything resembling rationality.

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by livecontent

Can the borders of states be changed?? Are the boundaries that exist so sacred that they cannot never be altered, even at the expense of future wants and needs.

Maybe we need to look at it another way by not creating another state but by
separating NYC above Duchess County and divide the rest of the state among bordering states. Western NY to Ohio; Southern Tier to Pennsylvania; and Albany, Upper Hudson, Adirondacks to Vermont. These areas, culturally and economically, may be more in tune with the neighboring states. The acquiring states will have more of an incentive to develop and show interest in these areas.

It is apparent that New York City and the suburbs do not care about the rest of the state and the narcissistic "The City" can do what it wants. And if we do it right, maybe we can give Northern New Jersey to NYC, since it is under this sphere of influence.

We then can go and look at other state boundaries and change them, where it would make more economic and cultural sense. After all, the states are an administrative area and the country is becoming similar from coast to coast--maybe a little altering of these boundaries would be good. Some of the separations of states were a result of the politics of the time and the western territories were divided before they established their economic spheres of influence.

Do we need a separate North and South Dakota??

Why does Wyoming have the same senatorial representation as California, when Wyoming has very little people.

California may be too big of a administrative nightmare for any state. Perhaps two separate states should be created.

It is time to look at these issues and, of course, avoid any gerrymandering.

Western NY to Ohio? Not so much.....they don't even share a border now. I've always thought that WNY could in and of itself be its own state, capital being either Rochester or Ithaca (both centrally located in the region). With a "cool" native american sounding name (most of the towns in the region have native american names anyways)

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by i'minformed

Western NY to Ohio? Not so much.....they don't even share a border now. I've always thought that WNY could in and of itself be its own state, capital being either Rochester or Ithaca (both centrally located in the region). With a "cool" native american sounding name (most of the towns in the region have native american names anyways)

We can use Lake Erie as a common border or we take Erie, PA and environ and make it part of Ohio.

And who says that states have to be contiguous??? Take a look at Michigan. Why is the UP(Upper Peninsula) not part of Wisconsin?????

Buffalo has more in common with the States that border the Great Lakes and certainly is more akin to Cleveland, Ohio.

[Futcha]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

Would dividing NYS into two states, Upstate and NYC, be a good idea?

What's the point? Without NYC, Upstate would fall to shambles.

[AJNEOA]

I say we grab our swords and shields and push the Canadian border north. Then we could make the new state's (let's call it "Phantasyland" for now) capital Toronto. We could then dice up anything east and south of Albany to PA and MA. Of course, we'll want to make sure we keep our Lake Erie lakefront in this transaction!

I'm sorry. I know everyone's trying to discuss an important topic. It's just that when I read all of the postings in a row, everyone made it sound so easy. I had to throw that in....proceed!