Upstate - New York's dumping ground? (Buffalo, Rochester: real estate, houses, buying)

[looking4home]

Having read this forum for over a year now, along with newspaper/internet articles, and my own first-hand observations, I have come to the conclusion that upstate is a sort of "dumping ground" for eveything toxic, ugly, and undesireable in NY.

First of all, nearly every prison, large or small is located somewhere upstate. This often keeps property values lower than they otherwise might be, and adds an unsavory element to the town. Unlike in generations past, those incarcerated will often stay in the area once released, unless the terms of their parole specify otherwise. While they are serving time, their family, and sometimes extended family, will move near the prison to be able to visit them. Unfortunately, the family often bring their own baggage and problems with them, as well.

Another very real problem are the literal garbage dumps. Garbage is being hauled to and through small towns from places like NJ and CT to upstate landfills. Some of the waste being transported is toxic/hazardous in nature, and has caused alarm for local residents. I know the towns around the Finger Lakes are trying to stop this practice, both at a state and federal level. It seems that over half the trucks that rumble through these quaint towns are doing so illegally, as they are trying to avoid having to pay tolls on the state highways.

The existence of CAFO's is another alarming reality of life in rural upstate NY. This stands for Continuous Animal Feeding Operation. These are springing up everywhere, from large, agri-business farms to the smaller, medium-sized family farm. For the sake of brevity, the problem lies in the copious amounts of manure these force-fed animals are producing, that has been liquified and put into "manure lagoons". This stuff is used as fertilizer and sprayed onto crops, but it also seeps into the soil, and contaminates the wells of neighbors with e-coli and other harmful bacteria, not to mention destroying other small rivers and streams. It also runs off into the lakes, and kills the fish, and deposits high levels of nitrates into the water, which upsets the eco-balance of the lake. It's becoming a serious problem for those choosing to live in rural areas, as it affects a wide area. Farmers claim they need to operate like this (instead of having the animals graze) to stay competitive, but they are creating a toxic situation that some say violates state environmental laws. Apparently, elected officials look the other way, as the agri-lobbies are very powerful and influential. It is becoming a wide-spread problem (no pun intended), especially for the Finger Lakes region, where tourism is important to the local economies, and their lakes are their pride and joy. If those become polluted, what do they have left?

Finally, there are the wind farms, which have already been much-discused on here, so I don't need to go into that in detail. It amuses me how those deciding these issues, from the turbine companies to town residents and local officials, always determine it would be too costly to locate these turbines anywhere downstate, like off-shore near Long Island, for instance. It's so much easier, and cheaper, to buy people off in the more depressed, rural, areas upstate.

One of NY's positive attributes is the natural beauty of upstate, and the vast array of outdoor activities available to residents and tourists alike. It's sad to see the peaceful, pristine landscapes ruined by man-made greed and carelessness. I don't know what the solution is - perhaps better local economies so locals aren't so willing to accept "bribes" of out-of-area money. Or at least, better economies in nearby larger cities like Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, so there will be a trickle-down effect to outlying towns. I do think it is reaching a crisis point, as there is limited privately-owned land upstate. Much of it is state park (Catskills/Adirondacks) but the population is generally outside of those, and they are the most affected by these quality-of-life issues. Oh, speaking of private property, Indian tribes are buying up hundreds of acres of land in Cayuga and Seneca counties under a treaty with the Dept. of the Interior. It could be thousands of acres, if they follow the agreement to the letter. This land becomes part of their "sovereign nation", which means they can literally do anything they want with it. NO local, state, or federal laws apply, including zoning or environmental laws. But perhaps this is a topic for another thread.

[CAugust]

Upstate, especially the Buffalo, NY area isnt as bad as you are making it out to be. As a real estate agent, I can tell you there are problems with any town and/or government wherever you go. There are great communitites full of wonderful affordable housing within this area. Now, saying that, affordable is variable to many people, so that could be discussed.

I think you are really reaching in calling this place a dump, when if you really take a moment and look, there are beautiful places that are safe and convenient.

Just my two cents

Colleen

[Upstate Dave]

Well..... seems the solution would be to stop all the "downstate" garbage from being transported and dumped upstate, close all the prisons and reopen them downstate, stop any agricultural companies that practice CAFO, force the evil windfarms to be built downstate, and ignore legal rulings regarding the Indian tribes annexing property. And who knew that the 19% of the state comprising the two parks constituted most of the state.

Come on... is this baiting? Are to assume we upstater's are all fools... or stupid?

[looking4home]

I am defending upstate NY. I'm bemoaning the fact that these very real problems negatively affect those who choose to live there, or perhaps might want to move there in the future. Is it any coincidence that these problems are all occuring upstate? Don't get angry at the messenger - get involved and try and improve where you live. Some are doing just that by working with state and local officals, as in the case of the garbage transport. Because of its depressed economic conditions, this area of NY is very vunerable to the pressures from outside influence (money) in regards to things like wind farms,etc. People who live there are neither fools nor stupid, but like people everywhere they can be unaware until it's too late.
One correction to my post regarding the CAFO's: It's Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation, not continual. Same thing, really. It's the unnatural feeding of livestock.

[12buttons]

Originally Posted by looking4home

Having read this forum for over a year now, along with newspaper/internet articles, and my own first-hand observations, I have come to the conclusion that upstate is a sort of "dumping ground" for eveything toxic, ugly, and undesireable in NY.

First of all, nearly every prison, large or small is located somewhere upstate. This often keeps property values lower than they otherwise might be, and adds an unsavory element to the town. Unlike in generations past, those incarcerated will often stay in the area once released, unless the terms of their parole specify otherwise. While they are serving time, their family, and sometimes extended family, will move near the prison to be able to visit them. Unfortunately, the family often bring their own baggage and problems with them, as well.

Another very real problem are the literal garbage dumps. Garbage is being hauled to and through small towns from places like NJ and CT to upstate landfills. Some of the waste being transported is toxic/hazardous in nature, and has caused alarm for local residents. I know the towns around the Finger Lakes are trying to stop this practice, both at a state and federal level. It seems that over half the trucks that rumble through these quaint towns are doing so illegally, as they are trying to avoid having to pay tolls on the state highways.

The existence of CAFO's is another alarming reality of life in rural upstate NY. This stands for Continuous Animal Feeding Operation. These are springing up everywhere, from large, agri-business farms to the smaller, medium-sized family farm. For the sake of brevity, the problem lies in the copious amounts of manure these force-fed animals are producing, that has been liquified and put into "manure lagoons". This stuff is used as fertilizer and sprayed onto crops, but it also seeps into the soil, and contaminates the wells of neighbors with e-coli and other harmful bacteria, not to mention destroying other small rivers and streams. It also runs off into the lakes, and kills the fish, and deposits high levels of nitrates into the water, which upsets the eco-balance of the lake. It's becoming a serious problem for those choosing to live in rural areas, as it affects a wide area. Farmers claim they need to operate like this (instead of having the animals graze) to stay competitive, but they are creating a toxic situation that some say violates state environmental laws. Apparently, elected officials look the other way, as the agri-lobbies are very powerful and influential. It is becoming a wide-spread problem (no pun intended), especially for the Finger Lakes region, where tourism is important to the local economies, and their lakes are their pride and joy. If those become polluted, what do they have left?

Finally, there are the wind farms, which have already been much-discused on here, so I don't need to go into that in detail. It amuses me how those deciding these issues, from the turbine companies to town residents and local officials, always determine it would be too costly to locate these turbines anywhere downstate, like off-shore near Long Island, for instance. It's so much easier, and cheaper, to buy people off in the more depressed, rural, areas upstate.

One of NY's positive attributes is the natural beauty of upstate, and the vast array of outdoor activities available to residents and tourists alike. It's sad to see the peaceful, pristine landscapes ruined by man-made greed and carelessness. I don't know what the solution is - perhaps better local economies so locals aren't so willing to accept "bribes" of out-of-area money. Or at least, better economies in nearby larger cities like Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, so there will be a trickle-down effect to outlying towns. I do think it is reaching a crisis point, as there is limited privately-owned land upstate. Much of it is state park (Catskills/Adirondacks) but the population is generally outside of those, and they are the most affected by these quality-of-life issues. Oh, speaking of private property, Indian tribes are buying up hundreds of acres of land in Cayuga and Seneca counties under a treaty with the Dept. of the Interior. It could be thousands of acres, if they follow the agreement to the letter. This land becomes part of their "sovereign nation", which means they can literally do anything they want with it. NO local, state, or federal laws apply, including zoning or environmental laws. But perhaps this is a topic for another thread.

Somebody posted recently walking around the city of Niagara Falls and getting high radiation readings..In the Bufflao area, subdivisions that were filled with toxic fill are finding kids getting sick and small pets dying -don't think you have to live next door to the landfill - the landfill may have come to you! One of the worst areas is the one south of Buffalo where uranium rods are buried . Govt has permanent offices around there. Radioactive isotopes found along Lake Ontario.. Lewiston NY has a rather nasty waste treatment plant...takes in all the toxic stuff like anthrax no one else wants ...you're right - I moved away from Upstate - too toxic for me, and the air is bad too...
SO many people there are already sick from living around or working at these factories that made uranium products for the war. In the city itself, so many of those old houses are full of asbestos.
Hope things change,,good luck finding a clean corner. With taxes that high too, it seems like adding insult to injury...

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by 12buttons

Somebody posted recently walking around the city of Niagara Falls and getting high radiation readings..In the Bufflao area, subdivisions that were filled with toxic fill are finding kids getting sick and small pets dying -don't think you have to live next door to the landfill - the landfill may have come to you! One of the worst areas is the one south of Buffalo where uranium rods are buried . Govt has permanent offices around there. Radioactive isotopes found along Lake Ontario.. Lewiston NY has a rather nasty waste treatment plant...takes in all the toxic stuff like anthrax no one else wants ...you're right - I moved away from Upstate - too toxic for me, and the air is bad too...
SO many people there are already sick from living around or working at these factories that made uranium products for the war. In the city itself, so many of those old houses are full of asbestos.
Hope things change,,good luck finding a clean corner. With taxes that high too, it seems like adding insult to injury...

Love canal, Kodak and cancer rates in Maplewood, Hudson river polluted and Some Ontario beaches are in the top ten for most closed days for containment.
Upstate is falling apart because it is mismanaged and most of the towns are broke and demanding bail outs from the government. Upstate people are smart. They thought building a fast ferry would work in economic declining Rochester. The people that set up that system knew no one from Canada would come over. (All I keep thinking of when I hear about that is a Simpson’s episode with the monorail).Rochester is a fine example. Most of the big companies in rochester are there for two reason 1 cheap labor and 2 getting big tax breaks which the people of that area make up in there taxes.When the tax breaks go so will the companies.
I think it will take a lot for this area to turn around.

[NYS of Mind]

Check out property values around Fishkill and Stormville NY. I don't think they are suffering because of the prisons located there. Dutchess County's property values were fairly high before the housing slow-down, the prisons did nothing to the value of homes around them. Toll Brothers has a few very desirable developments that are located less than 5 miles from the prisons. The prisons are not a huge issue, if anything they are major employers in certain areas farther upstate.

[looking4home]

Fishkill and Dutchess are part of the commuter belt now, so property values would naturally be high. I think it's more about the general economic malaise that affects upstate, and a prison doesn't really add to the attractivness of such an area. To know that a state prison is the big employer in town is kind of a turn-off, and doesn't make for an healthy, diverse, economy that will make a city viable and attractive. Believe me, I know, I'm from Auburn.

FYI, if you want to read more about CAFO's, here is a great link to the Sierra Club, which has many articles, photos and even a video (but don't watch it before or after you've eaten - eeeeewwww!) This isn't just a NY problem, it's happening all over rural America. There is a organization called Friends of Rural NY - I think that's it, and it lists all the CAFO's sites for central NY. But here is the Sierra Club link: Factory Farms Main - Sierra Club

[Dr Funky]

Originally Posted by CAugust

Upstate, especially the Buffalo, NY area isnt as bad as you are making it out to be. As a real estate agent, I can tell you there are problems with any town and/or government wherever you go. There are great communitites full of wonderful affordable housing within this area. Now, saying that, affordable is variable to many people, so that could be discussed.

I think you are really reaching in calling this place a dump, when if you really take a moment and look, there are beautiful places that are safe and convenient.

Just my two cents

Colleen

coming from a Buffalo real estate agent.......

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by shibainu

Love canal, Kodak and cancer rates in Maplewood, Hudson river polluted and Some Ontario beaches are in the top ten for most closed days for containment.
Upstate is falling apart because it is mismanaged and most of the towns are broke and demanding bail outs from the government. Upstate people are smart. They thought building a fast ferry would work in economic declining Rochester. The people that set up that system knew no one from Canada would come over. (All I keep thinking of when I hear about that is a Simpson’s episode with the monorail).Rochester is a fine example. Most of the big companies in rochester are there for two reason 1 cheap labor and 2 getting big tax breaks which the people of that area make up in there taxes.When the tax breaks go so will the companies.
I think it will take a lot for this area to turn around.

Haha, what a great Simpsons episode! You're right though. I loved that the Fast Ferry project got Charlotte cleaned up. The Port of Rochester is much nicer now. However, they should have just cleaned that area up and forgot about the waste-of-money fast ferry. I don't understand how shipping Rochesterians out of the city to a global city is supposed to boost the local economy. Then when people from Toronto do come over, they're stuck in an area that's not really even directly connected to downtown and has no real public transportation (just some buses). They could drive to the wineries on the finger lakes, but we found out how many people came down for that.