Factory Farms (CAFO) in NY and Real Estate Agents (Buffalo: sale, credit)

[honeychrome]

Chris, my attitude towards industrial wind development (I don't know how they came up with the 'farm' angle) was similar to yours until I started to dig into the information on it, to a great extent pointed toward it by posters on this board. By nature I am suspicious of corporate schemes, but like most people, to me wind development seemed like a no-brainer; clean, renewable..... seems like that would outweigh view disruptions, etc. I should have known better. The problem is that at least for the parts of upstate NY where these developments are proposed they are a subsidy scam. There is a ton of money available and politicians are happily doling it out to developers for projects that will produce little meaningful power so they can be seen as 'doing something.' The catch is that the subsidies are based on output of a development under continuous ideal conditions, which don't exist in the real world. A development could produce no power and the developer still gets his $$ because in theory the development *could* produce x-amount of power. To maximize the $$ going into their pockets they're targeting relatively poor counties and communities where leases are cheap and decomissioning, etc. can be 'externalized' (ie.the town is left with the mess later), they're using leftover/outdated turbine models they can get cheap from Denmark, etc. and putting them as close to infrastructure as they possibly can so they don't have to spend money on access, etc. And because of the inconsistency of wind generated electricity, even if the developments do produce some power, the coal plants still need to be running and online to keep the supply constant when the wind dies. Ruining communities and ecosystems upstate with industrial wind developments that produce little or no meaningful energy so we can feel like 'something is being done!' and the usual suspects walk away with a big wad of tax dollars isn't going to do anything to combat climate change. Now using those subsidy dollars to put a small-scale residential windmill on as many houses as possible.... that might actually do something... but we can't have that! That would be discrimination against corporations!

[BovinaCowHateWindTurbines]

Originally Posted by chrisruns2far

Good CAFO information: Check out the Food and Water Watch interactive CAFO Map at Factory Farm Map — Food & Water Watch. It was infomation on every CAFO in every state and county across America and will show how many or how few are in a specifc area. Eight of the top ten highest source points of ammonia emmissions are from massive CAFO sights.

I understand that it would not be very desireable to live adjacent to a wind farm....but we have the biggest threat to the survival of the human race going on right now....GLOBAL WARMING. 68% of our carbon emmissions come from power generation plants that power our homes, industries, etc. and wind is one of the best renewable energy resources that we have available to us to help mitigate climate change. I'll take clean air, renewable energy resources and rational and proactive energy policy over the state of denial that we have been in for far to long.

Simply ask your self....wind farms or more coal fired power plants; no emmissions or green-house gas emmissions, clean air or brown air, benign or carcinogenic. I can live with wind towers vs. the alternative

Can you live with 10 425ft wind turbines 650ft from your present home? Especially if you received no payments or reduction in property taxes. You additionally cannot use the electricity because it needs to go into the grid, and the power goes to power Times Square. You still need those coal plants when the wind dies and you have zero power production for perhaps weeks. Too much wind is not good either they have computerized braking systems at 25 mph so the blades do not fly off and land in your roof. Also they have in general 700-1000 gallons of petroleum to grease the wheel so to speak - oil to lubricate the blade. Which needs to be replaced every year. Which means trucking in for say a 34 turbine "windmill farm" is 34 thousand gallons of petrol every year. And those trucks don't run on bio-diesel or fairy dust. And 80% of C02 comes from evaporated sea water from the oceans. And sorry to get off topic last post on that subject and I sympathize with the OP.

[ss58yy]

Originally Posted by JustSayNo

WOW, all of you have openned my eyes big regarding the CAFO. We live in a farming/mostly dairy town and this is not occuring anywhere. BUT, we are in strict watershed so now I know why our cows have 100s of acres of pasture and happily munch, rest, and wander in the grass. ...

Apparently, living in the NYC watershed area doesn't give complete protection against CAFOs. Looking at the NY CAFO map pointed to by that CAFO blogsite, it shows one medium-sized CAFO near Halcott Center in Greene County. That CAFO is probably in the Pepacton Resevoir watershed (but possibly in the Ashokan watershed -- the map is not too precise). However, that one CAFO does appear to be the only one in the Pepacton-Cannonsville watershed (East and West branches of the Delaware). All the CAFOs in Delaware county seem to out in the Susquehana Valley, except for one west of Downsville.

[itSmellsBAD]

Originally Posted by ss58yy

Apparently, living in the NYC watershed area doesn't give complete protection against CAFOs. Looking at the NY CAFO map pointed to by that CAFO blogsite, it shows one medium-sized CAFO near Halcott Center in Greene County. That CAFO is probably in the Pepacton Resevoir watershed (but possibly in the Ashokan watershed -- the map is not too precise). However, that one CAFO does appear to be the only one in the Pepacton-Cannonsville watershed (East and West branches of the Delaware). All the CAFOs in Delaware county seem to out in the Susquehana Valley, except for one west of Downsville.

You need to note that that CAFO list is old and was incomplete when it was made. Many of the small and medium CAFO's have greatly expanded due to record high milk prices and increased government welfare payments. There is a huge CAFO right next to the Schoharie Creek (NYC water Source) near Middleburg. Lots of new constuction happening all over NY and the DEC looks the other way when obvious pollution occurs. You've never seen a more powerful lobby than the Farm Bureau. they are actually proud of the fact that they are the largest welfare recipients in NY state. They also employ illegal farm laborers that drain local resources and run up your taxes. You need to think twice about moving anywhere in rural NY these days. Welcome to CAFO HELL (broken link)

[ss58yy]

Originally Posted by itSmellsBAD

... There is a huge CAFO right next to the Schoharie Creek (NYC water Source) near Middleburg. ... Welcome to CAFO HELL (broken link)

Although it's on Schoharie Creek, Middleburg looks like it's north of the Schoharie Resevoir watershed area.

[honeychrome]

If we're really serious in our opposition to confined animal feeding operations, as well as related industrial agricultural practices it is critical that we support the alternatives (small, locally-based farms) as well as fight against the rules and regulations designed specifically to drive small farmers and producers out of business (all under the guise of 'public safety' and 'national security' of course). NAIS is just one of those efforts on the part of giant agribusiness, their lobbyists and 'our' government to squeeze out the small farmer:

AlterNet: U.S. Government's Plan to Protect You From Terrorist Livestock

Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance

[looking4home]

Those sites are very interesting, HC, but it doesn't have to do with CAFO's. Indirectly, perhaps, as it reflects govt. involvement in farming. It doesn't show us how we can help the small farmer or rancher. Yes, the survelliance of livestock might be puzzling, even alarming to some, and might come with a bit of expense, but that alone is not what puts farmers out of business.

I recently attended a meeting of our city's electric company, which is publicly owned. They keep raising rates, and a flat fee they are tacking on to our monthly bills now is for "climate change mitigation". California's legislature keeps passing costly legislation in an attempt to help curb greenhouse gasses, and in turn, the cities want to pass the costs on to us , the consumers. I'm not going to forego electricity because of this new fee, the premise of which I don't even believe in to begin with, and I just chalk it up to the cost of living in 21st century America. I also have to pay extra fees for airport/airline security, and go through rigorous, elaborate, personally invasive, and time-consuming security measures every time I travel by air. However annoying, inconvenient, or costly, it doesn't stop me from traveling by air, nor will the NAIS requirements prevent people from keeping livestock.

[itSmellsBAD]

Hog CAFO's are marching North! If you think Dairy Factory Farms are bad, wait until these arrive...............


Montezuma pig farm raises concerns
Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:20 PM EDT
We as members of Environmentally Concerned Citizens of Montezuma (ECCOM) are very concerned about the environmental impact that the proposed 2,000 head swine farm CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operation) will have on our health and our beautiful, natural resources that some people take for granted.The location is on the south end of Denman Road, on the farm previously run by Jim Thurston.Now owned by Mike Shoots, the farm is to be purchased by Richard Snyder, who has informed the town board that he intends to build a CAFO with over 2,000 swine.We the members and supporters of ECCOM have requested a moratorium to be granted for an impact study to be conducted in this location.This study would create a base-line for any required testing that may be needed in the future.We believe, as taxpayers, that we deserve this study. We ask for your support.
The saying that “what happens in Montezuma stays in Montezuma” will not be true, as the effects of this proposed CAFO will carry over to neighboring towns.Google CAFO and you too will be concerned.Dan RandolphMontezuma

[honeychrome]

Originally Posted by looking4home

Those sites are very interesting, HC, but it doesn't have to do with CAFO's.

NAIS and CAFOs are directly related. NAIS has been proposed, ostensibly, as a means to monitor the safety of the American livestock supply and specifically to allow tracking outbreaks of mad cow and other diseases of which there is very strong evidence result from factory farming/confined animal feedlot operation practices. Mad cow and the other diseases NAIS is supposed to help the USDA track and keep out of the food supply are virtually unheard of in small-scale pasture farming, yet NAIS specifically puts a far greater burden of compliance on such small-scale farms. Operations with more than 100 animals (I believe that is the number- might be off on it) will only be required to pay a single registration for the entire herd- farms with fewer than that will have to register and tag each individual animal. The large (CAFO) operations already have computerized inventory programs and high-speed connections that will be required to report any animal 'events' (movement, illnesses, deaths, etc.)- small farmers and homesteaders will be required to invest in systems like the CAFOs which otherwise are completely unnecessary to their livestock practices. It is also interesting to note that NAIS was not an idea that originated at the USDA- it was a joint proposal made to the USDA by the agribusiness industry and a group representing the RFID industry (RFID is the monitoring system and the chips that animals would have to be tagged with). The strategy is pretty clear- the CAFO industry gets a PR boost of saying "look what we're doing to keep food safe" without having to spend much money at all (they already have the basic systems in place for their inventory control), the RFID industry makes a bunch of money on the tags farmers have to buy and added financial pressure is put on the smaller farmers making them more likely to go out of business or further raise their prices so that opting for an alternative to factory farming is a less viable consumer option.

The fact is that if you eat meat and you are opposed to CAFOs you can't expect change unless you support the alternatives. NAIS is specifically designed to aid in the elimination of alternatives to factory farm products.

[looking4home]

Honeychrome, thank you for the clarification. what happens if the small farmer refuses to comply? Are they given some kind of time frame in which to buy all of this equipment and get up to speed? Who checks up on them to make sure they are complying? And what if the farmer pleads hardship, and says installing expensive computer equipment and the subsequent monitoring might put him (or her) out of business?

But I see what you are saying - the CAFO is not really inconvenienced at all, and therefore, is sort of being rewarded, whereas the small farmer has an extra burden, and now has one more reason to consider going out of business.