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Please, people! How infantile can you be? You're equating a school's failure to follow the law with students who are following people out to the parking lot to beat them up???? What on earth?
You have, however, proven one point to me...people who are willing to sacrifice the constitution and the rights of our citizens for their own personal beliefs live everywhere. Thanks for making that clear.
Can we get back to the topic at hand, please? If you want to continue to harp on the no school prayer equals apocolypse discussion, go start a different thread.
P.S. Both of my kids attend public school. As for the quality of the schools in Western New York (inner city, excluded), look at SAT scores, graduation rates, etc. and compare then with Florida schools. Your taxes go to a good cause. You should also know that teachers in NY are paid well because they are REQUIRED to get a masters degree. That means your children are getting a high quality education. It also means that these well-educated people are sacrificing higher paying careers to do what they love...teach.
BTW, where were you educated?
Actually if you look at the data Ny looks pretty bad verse florida. Florida spends half of what NYS spends per pupil and the data show nys and florida is about even in test results. So ny supposely has higher requirements and spend more per pupil but the were ranked 39 out of 50 states in 2000.nj was number 1.florida was last. Civic Report 31 | Table 2
Compare Results - Florida Public Schools, Public School Districts - SchoolMatters (http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/compareresults?stype=SM&mtype=&mlvl=0&site=pes&sti d=10&llid=111&stllid=-1&locid=10&stridx=&srtname=&srto=&page=55<=&cnty name=&distname=&sel=10&sel=33 - broken link)
fl grad 66% 2003 spent 8,823 sat 996
ny grad 76% 2003 spent 13,700 sat 1008
nj grad 94% spend 14,111 sat 1020
va grad 81% spend 8,886 sat 1030
md grad 84% spend 10,031 sat 1026
Compare Results - Florida Public Schools, Public School Districts - SchoolMatters (http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/compareresults?stype=SM&mtype=&mlvl=0&site=pes&sti d=10&llid=111&stllid=-1&locid=10&stridx=&srtname=&srto=&page=55<=&cnty name=&distname=&sel=10&sel=21&sel=31&sel=33&sel=47 - broken link)
Wow, pay double to get 10% in higher grad rates. Talk about a bad ROI. If yo are going to pay the same as ny go to nj for schools. But I would take Va and md overall because it is about the same amount of money spent in florida. They have much higher grad rates and sat scores for the investment.
The average teacher salary in New York for the 2004-05 school year was $55,665, up 0.9 percent from the previous year when it was ranked third. New York was ranked fifth in the nation for beginning teacher salary, at $37,321, an increase of 2.5 percent from 2004.Connecticut had the highest average teacher salary, at $57,760 http://www.aft.org/presscenter/relea...ySurvey-NY.pdf
The average teacher salary in Florida for the 2004-05 school year was $43,095, up 2.6 percent from the previous year. Florida was ranked 20th in the nation for beginning teacher salary, at $33,427, an increase of 2.7 percent from 2004.
Other states in the Southeast region ranked in the AFT survey as follows: Georgia was ranked 18th in the nation, at $46,437; Virginia was 20th, at $45,377; North Carolina was 24th, at $43,343; South Carolina was 28th, at $42,189; Tennessee was 29th, at $42,076; Arkansas was 30th, at $41,489; Kentucky was 31st, at $41,075; Louisiana was 42nd, at $39,022; West Virginia was 44th, at $38,404; Mississippi was 45th, at $38,212; and Alabama was 46th, at $38,186. http://www.aft.org/presscenter/relea...ySurvey-FL.pdf
NY average teachers pay is $55,665 and florida $43,095. That is almost the same pay if you add in the cost of living calculator. Take miami and queens for the example. If you made $43,095 in miami it would be like making $54,872.05 in queens. I used these two for example because population size is almost the same. Cost of Living - Cost of Living Calculator from CNNMoney
So I would disagree that master degree proves that the students are getting a better education.
"Favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties."
"Free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners."
"Favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression" -www.dictionary.com
Shame on liberals for wanting to teach tolerance and protect civil liberties! I guess liberal values don't belong in the American public education system.
So what do you propose? Start a new thread and we can leave poor Oxymoron out of this. I would love to debate. This is not the forum for that.
See Liberalism, Conservatism, and Education.
Last edited by silencedogood; 09-24-2007 at 07:51 PM..
Reason: New thread
A couple comments:
(1) Education is certainly something that needs to improve in this country. Unfotunately, the problem is multi-pronged. We're certainly not going to fix it by complaining about it on this forum. As an educator, I'm doing the best I can to teach my students everything that is required in today's curriculum. If you aren't an educator, I'll tell you it's a lot. Teaching isn't what it used to be. I can assure you of that.
(2) Comparing Miami money with NYC money doesn't really provide useful information for me when I am planning on moving to Western New York from North Florida. If I see a raise at all, it will be a small one. People max out on the pay scale in my district at $55,500 with a masters. In New York, teachers max out in the upper 70's, low 80's. Retirement benefits are a little bit better than FL. The reality is, though, they couldn't pay me enough to teach if it wasn't something I felt strongly about doing.
Luckily, we want to move back to WNY for more than a job. It is a beautiful area, we have family and friends there, love the recreational opportunities, love the cities within a day's drive and, perhaps most importantly, it's home. I think the gentleman at the beginning of this thread said it best, "Don't know what you go 'til it's gone." Another phrase comes to mind too..."The grass is always greener."
In reality, I think every place has ups and downs. Admittedly, Western New York has a lot of downs, but it has a lot to offer too. I'd like to hear from others who feel this way, and I'd like to hear from more people like i'minformed (who has moved back to the area after moving away). Not everything is quantifiable. Sometimes it's just personal happiness and a feeling.
One more thing. NY Teachers get free health benefits for LIFE and their pension are non taxable in NY. They also retire at 55. ALL private pensions are taxable in NY.
Heroin High has also produced multiple sexual predators (teachers with MASTERS) that are either serving time in prison or on the registered sex offender database. Must be the "low pay and crappy benefits" that attracts these predators. $70K plus for what is basically a part time job are slave wages.
Please, to the Liberal life partner couple /secular teachers in FL, don't come back. Our kids have been brainwashed enough by your kind. Stay down South and ruin their school system. Thanks
$90,000 home @ 1300 sq ft with $4200 school/property taxes (going up another $95.00 this year).
A couple comments:
(1) Education is certainly something that needs to improve in this country. Unfotunately, the problem is multi-pronged. We're certainly not going to fix it by complaining about it on this forum. As an educator, I'm doing the best I can to teach my students everything that is required in today's curriculum. If you aren't an educator, I'll tell you it's a lot. Teaching isn't what it used to be. I can assure you of that.
(2) Comparing Miami money with NYC money doesn't really provide useful information for me when I am planning on moving to Western New York from North Florida. If I see a raise at all, it will be a small one. People max out on the pay scale in my district at $55,500 with a masters. In New York, teachers max out in the upper 70's, low 80's. Retirement benefits are a little bit better than FL. The reality is, though, they couldn't pay me enough to teach if it wasn't something I felt strongly about doing.
Well first of all good luck finding a teaching job in wny. They seem to be very hard to find. Rochester mean salary for secondary school teacher is $61,850, high end 72k and about 260 openings a year. Western ny(buffalo) mean is $56,320, high range 65k and about 250 job openings a year. tampa mean $54,565, orlando $45,330, ft lauderdale 65,050, northeast fl $50,043, northwest $47,803.
Again I was trying to show the cost of living difference. Actually the mean is $73,680 for nyc and miami mean is 57,852. The point I was making is that people in fl usually have a Bachelor's degree vs master. The pay difference minus the cost of living is actually worst than florida.
Luckily, we want to move back to WNY for more than a job. It is a beautiful area, we have family and friends there, love the recreational opportunities, love the cities within a day's drive and, perhaps most importantly, it's home. I think the gentleman at the beginning of this thread said it best, "Don't know what you go 'til it's gone." Another phrase comes to mind too..."The grass is always greener."
I understand that the grass is not always greener. Here is a good question: If you do not like Florida and you know nys is a dying failed system, why not try something else? I love people that always live in the past because they never understand what is in the future. I once lived in the past and I unfortunately moved back to wny thinking it was great. I was wrong it is in a very sad state right now. With the current leadership in ny it will take years if not decades to turn this once great city (Rochester) and state around. I am very disappointed in wny. The local government will never improve(any time soon) because people will not even run for office against the local leaders. (Ex. Maggie brooks, slaughter) The area will see another rate hike in taxes and there is no way around it. Monroe County is one of the highest tax counties in the country. What does your lovely taxes dollars get? Nothing but a broken system. They give millions for the companies to stay in Rochester area. Most of the companies have thought of leaving but Duffy and brooks throw money at them to shut them up.
One thing I do not get from the pro-camp of Rochester is they always say it is great for families and it is family oriented. The U.S. census show that actually Rochester is below the U.S. average for families and family size. More of the young educated people are leaving and older people are staying or coming back from the places they migrated from.
My question is that there are hundreds of cities to chose from in the us why would any one want to live in a area that is not prosperous for your children. Once your child is born in a city like Rochester, Detroit, D.C., Baltimore the odds are against you to be successful. So why would any one want to raise their kids in that environment? Because they miss it. That is a horrible reason. (Usually when people reminisce about their past they wish they could re-live it. It is like that relationship that breaks up and gets back together 10 times because they think it will work.)
My personal opinion is that you may not like where you are now and you want to run to a safety net (something familiar), I think you will be disappointed over time if you came back to WNY. There is a reason why buffalo is one of the poorest cities in America.You may want to check that thread out. http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...hlight=buffalo
In reality, I think every place has ups and downs. Admittedly, Western New York has a lot of downs, but it has a lot to offer too. .
That statement does not make sence. How can a place that has a lot of downs have a lot to offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxymoron
Not everything is quantifiable. Sometimes it's just personal happiness and a feeling.
When making big decisions in life it is better to make a decision when you get all the facts. If you base your decisions just by feelings you will get burned in life. Have you ever heard of people remove the emotions of purchasing homes. If they falling in love with a house or an area you are allowing yourself to go blind before making an logical/Intelligent decision.
It's called LIBERALISM. It's what NY is all about. The schools are so great here that most of the high school graduates move to OHTER STATES by the time they are 25. Here is a SUBURB of Buffalo with one of the highest school tax rates in Erie County NY....and YES all the teachers have a Masters. It's Frontier High School AKA "HEROIN HIGH". $75,000 + teacher salary..hardly the ghetto............and no prayers. They assualt teachers here also. MAybe you and your secular husband can get a job a Heroin High? Almost ALL the teachers at Heroin High have their own kids in CATHOLIC SCHOOL. Enjoy!
Yesterday Western New York’s Business First Magazine ranked the top 25 High Schools in Western New York. Frontier High School and Hamburg High School were no where to be found. I really can’t comment on Hamburg High School since I know very little about that district. However the Frontier High School has been rated poorly for some years now. Frontier School District has a lot of problems recently with poor school rankings, drugs in school, and unruly students that give the school district problems. Frontier High School is famously known throughout WNY as “Heroin High”, meaning how easy it has been to purchase heroin on school grounds. This very issue prompted the district and the Town of Hamburg to hire a full time police resource officer to stem the sale of drugs in the high school. http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2007/05/28/daily8.html?page=2 Business First Magazine ranked the top 25 High Schools in the area and this year they added private schools to the mix. For those who followed this site before the switch of our web master you would remember that I spoke openly about how poorly the high school and middle school perform for the money they get from our taxes. Last year Frontier Middle school ranked in 17th position and the High School ranked in 20th position. This year they aren’t even on the list. That disgusts me. Do you realise that our school district is literally paying $4,000 more per child then if we sent every child to the number 1 ranked school in wny. That school was all girl Nardin Academy. Actually Nardin has been top of the list for several years and there is no end in sight. I wish that the Frontier School District would just pay for my kids to attend the private school of their choice and they probably would pocket at least 3-4 thousand dollars extra each year. It would be a win/win situation. The kids win with a better education and the tax payers would win with decreased taxes from all the money saved from nixing the School District all together. Makes sense to me.
There are plenty of schools who are nice and safe.
Either way, kids are more aggressive than ever and it is bound to spill out into the schools.
Been gone for 20 years, Im moving back in 3 weeks, Im so excited to be back home where real people are its sick.
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Frontier High School Heroin High
