WNY - Should we move back? (New York, Buffalo: middle-class, neighborhoods, buying)

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by oktaren

Buffalo doesn't carry this part of wny, it is over an hour away. Rochester is between 2-3.

I tried new things, and happened to miss the area, and can't wait to get back.

southern tier population
Cattaraugus County, New York Population 81,534
Chautauqua County, New York Population 135,357
Allegany County, New York Population 49,927

southern tier counties
Chautauqua jobs = 55k unemployment 6.6%
mean family income 54,324
poverty 11% for families and 14.6 for individuals
Cattaraugus jobs=33.4k unemployment 7.5%
mean family income 57,340
family poverty 12.9% individuals 16%
Allegany jobs =15.7k 2006 data not available on us census.

New York State Department of Labor - Home Page
jobs in education
Allegany/Cattaraugus =1,604
Chautauqua County=207

So souther tier makes up 104k jobs out of the 625k for the western ny region which is 16% of the total jobs.Of the education jobs it makes up 1,811 jobs out of 14.1k that equals 12% of the jobs.Southern tier population makes up only 16% of the total western ny population. Southern tier Has only 62% of the total population in the workforce that is old enough to work. Now the question is how many of the residents of these 3 counties work in other counties near by. People live and work in different counties. But with the data above I would still say that buffalo-Niagara carrys western ny. What would happen if there were a major down turn in buffalo? The surrounding counties would be effected.

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by shibainu

southern tier population
Cattaraugus County, New York Population 81,534
Chautauqua County, New York Population 135,357
Allegany County, New York Population 49,927

southern tier counties
Chautauqua jobs = 55k unemployment 6.6%
mean family income 54,324
poverty 11% for families and 14.6 for individuals
Cattaraugus jobs=33.4k unemployment 7.5%
mean family income 57,340
family poverty 12.9% individuals 16%
Allegany jobs =15.7k 2006 data not available on us census.

New York State Department of Labor - Home Page
jobs in education
Allegany/Cattaraugus =1,604
Chautauqua County=207

So souther tier makes up 104k jobs out of the 625k for the western ny region which is 16% of the total jobs.Of the education jobs it makes up 1,811 jobs out of 14.1k that equals 12% of the jobs.Southern tier population makes up only 16% of the total western ny population. Southern tier Has only 62% of the total population in the workforce that is old enough to work. Now the question is how many of the residents of these 3 counties work in other counties near by. People live and work in different counties. But with the data above I would still say that buffalo-Niagara carrys western ny. What would happen if there were a major down turn in buffalo? The surrounding counties would be effected.

So what, buffalo has more people, that doesn't mean anything.

Maybe your county would be effected if Buffalo turned into a ghost town, chatuauqua wouldn't be all that effected. Not many people make the hour commute to Buffalo. The majority of the population works in the town they live in. Either way, Erie, PA is much closer to Chautauqua County than Buffalo, and many more people travel there for work than to buffalo.

[NovaTen]

oxymoron- We too are from WNY and can't wait to move back!!! I am a teacher as well and worry about job prospects- with experiences in DC area, and NC I hope my chances will be better than someone just out of school. We moved to NC and don't like it at all. It's been two years and doesn't get any better. I try to be postive, but it gets hard. Good luck to you and your family and I say go for it- that's what were going to do

[BuffaloTransplant]

It makes me sad that a few posters have nothing good to say about WNY . My husband and I are staying here; we are both retired from teaching, all of it in the city. Given a good portion of teachers are our age, hired in the late 1960s/early 1970s and now retiring or retired, there are jobs opening up, even in the burbs. Your chances depend on your area; science and math and special ed are always looking. Try checking the Buffalo News classified for Education jobs. I personally would avoid the city simply as it is under a control board and there have been no raises in 5 years for teachers, cops or firemen. Houses are still reasonable, depending on where you want to be. Our taxes are still under $2,500 -- on the same house purchased in the 1970s. If you buy a house , the taxes will be reassessed on the new purchase price ( the county is at 100% valuation). Nice areas are still easy to be found and homes are reasonable. Gasoline is, as usual, high here ( can't ever figure out why). Food is still low and even the general cost of living isn't taking too much of a hit. IMHO, I would ignore the people who are slamming the area and since you are from here, I'd take a trip up to home and see if it pleases you.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by itSmellsBAD

One more thing. NY Teachers get free health benefits for LIFE and their pension are non taxable in NY. They also retire at 55. ALL private pensions are taxable in NY.

Heroin High has also produced multiple sexual predators (teachers with MASTERS) that are either serving time in prison or on the registered sex offender database. Must be the "low pay and crappy benefits" that attracts these predators. $70K plus for what is basically a part time job are slave wages.

Please, to the Liberal life partner couple /secular teachers in FL, don't come back. Our kids have been brainwashed enough by your kind. Stay down South and ruin their school system. Thanks

$90,000 home @ 1300 sq ft with $4200 school/property taxes (going up another $95.00 this year).

If you have nothing good to say, why say anything at all? Worse, why keep repeating yorself? If you have something to add to the discussion, that is one thing. I taught in Buffalo; so did my husband. FYI: Teachers who move out of NY get taxed after retirement on their pensions, unless the state they move to does not have an income tax... Not everyone retires at 55; that is simply if you have the money to... Many districts do NOT give free benefits; all teachers retiring now from Buffalo pay into what they get for health benefits. The last year where there was any "free" retired health was for the people who had the lowest priced plan in 2001. [I have friends still in the district who have not had a raise in 5 years and are still making what I made when I retired.].... If your district is so bad, move. There are plenty of places to get a cheaper house with cheaper taxes around here. My home is worth half again as much as yours and my taxes are 60% of what yours are. My own school district has over 90% of seniors graduate(one of the highest % in the county) and 75% of them go to college -- while spending under $7K/year per student. ( Look at Business First and you can figure out where I am).... As to the sexual predators your district hires, why don't you ask the administration about why they don't run criminal checks and fingerprint them before they hire them?

Sounds like you should have a bone to pick with town, county, state and federal workers as well as teachers. All earn pensions. You need to change your job, perhaps?

[12buttons]

Originally Posted by shibainu

rbj shows that after the top 5 schools the graduation rate is 80% or less. Most being in the range of 65-80%. With the city of rochester graduation rate is 39%.(One of the worst in the state)
In the Rochester region — Genesee, Livingston, Monroe, Ontario, Orleans and Wayne counties — the average percentage of students who graduate from high school within four years is about 76 percent
Democrat & Chronicle: Local News
grad rates for Greece Central School District 2005 78.81% 2006 79.64% rank 15 out 18 districts in rochester area Graduation Rates

and then there's Rochester being called the Murder Capital ..a realtor told me about this!

Rochester's Murder-Meter Ticks Up to 34 for 2007 - Topix

[12buttons]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

If you have nothing good to say, why say anything at all? Worse, why keep repeating yorself? If you have something to add to the discussion, that is one thing. I taught in Buffalo; so did my husband. FYI: Teachers who move out of NY get taxed after retirement on their pensions, unless the state they move to does not have an income tax... Not everyone retires at 55; that is simply if you have the money to... Many districts do NOT give free benefits; all teachers retiring now from Buffalo pay into what they get for health benefits. The last year where there was any "free" retired health was for the people who had the lowest priced plan in 2001. [I have friends still in the district who have not had a raise in 5 years and are still making what I made when I retired.].... If your district is so bad, move. There are plenty of places to get a cheaper house with cheaper taxes around here. My home is worth half again as much as yours and my taxes are 60% of what yours are. My own school district has over 90% of seniors graduate(one of the highest % in the county) and 75% of them go to college -- while spending under $7K/year per student. ( Look at Business First and you can figure out where I am).... As to the sexual predators your district hires, why don't you ask the administration about why they don't run criminal checks and fingerprint them before they hire them?

Sounds like you should have a bone to pick with town, county, state and federal workers as well as teachers. All earn pensions. You need to change your job, perhaps?

So where are the cheaper houses with cheaper taxes in areas that are not high crime areas?

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by 12buttons

So where are the cheaper houses with cheaper taxes in areas that are not high crime areas?

Houses are extremely cheap in this area, and while the tax rate is high, because of the much lower value of houses, the tax burden evens itself out with other areas of the country, and yet the houses are still extremely cheap to purchase. And, in Chautauqua County at least there is barely any crime

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by oktaren

Houses are extremely cheap in this area, and while the tax rate is high, because of the much lower value of houses, the tax burden evens itself out with other areas of the country, and yet the houses are still extremely cheap to purchase. And, in Chautauqua County at least there is barely any crime

They are beyond cheap. If you by a house in upstate ny do not expect it to retain value. Last I checked home appreciation for the past 30 years is 3-4%. Inflation is about 2-3% in any given year. You do the math. Second wow your willing to pay higher taxes on a cheaper house to pay for the broke system. Most houses are also cheap because of 2 reasons. First is income is low (usually below national average) and second no one wants to move here so there is more houses on the market vs buyers. (Poor economy) Every one migrates with the jobs because it is part of the primary need. (Maslow theory)

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by shibainu

They are beyond cheap. If you by a house in upstate ny do not expect it to retain value. Last I checked home appreciation for the past 30 years is 3-4%. Inflation is about 2-3% in any given year. You do the math. Second wow your willing to pay higher taxes on a cheaper house to pay for the broke system. Most houses are also cheap because of 2 reasons. First is income is low (usually below national average) and second no one wants to move here so there is more houses on the market vs buyers. (Poor economy) Every one migrates with the jobs because it is part of the primary need. (Maslow theory)

Well, you don't know how to work the system. They are beyond cheap, buy a few, rent them out and make a bunch of money.

The house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, it doesn't mean the house is in bad condition. It just means people aren't willing to pay the same amount for it. So, the exact same house is in wny and somewhere else. Im paying a higher tax rate, but since my house is 'worth' less, I pay the same or even less in taxes FOR THE SAME HOUSE.

On top of that, good jobs do exist in wny, there just aren't that many of them, but with the amount of people that move away, there is plenty for the people who are sticking around. And, there are lots of opportunities for small business owners because the markets haven't been tapped out, in fact many times they haven't even been tapped yet.

Oh, and I don't know where abouts you are located, but they are holding value here in Chautauqua County. They aren't increasing ALOT, but in the past 10 years many houses, outside of maybe dunkirk and jamestown, have gone up quite a bit.