How much is enough in Plattsburgh? (New York, Union: for sale, rentals, health insurance)

[barbaloo]

from Bay area in California 3 years ago, where real estate is out of reach. So yes, my major reason for moving here was to be able to afford real estate. What I did not and could not predict was that in 3 years, the taxes would exceed the mortgage. (even with the STAR tax break)

BTW, the StAR tax break has 2 tiers. One for under 65 and one for over 65. It's something but it doesn't make a big dent.

I had a hard time finding a job. I had years of experience and ultimately, that did land me some offers, but the pay scale is very sad here. Comparing to Silicon Valley would be extreme but if you can make over $10 an hour with benefits here, you've hit the motherlode. Frankly, one can't live anywhere, including here, on that.

Yes, there is the hospital and the college so those are the major employers for degreed professionals, but we are in the process of losing Wyeth, one of the higher paying employers, and that will let loose something like 1000 or more people needing jobs. Presently, those jobs do not exist.

On the upside, there will be an aviation company coming in that will provide many jobs but that is something like 3-5 years down the road.

[barbaloo]

I believe Plattsburgh has great potential. One of the few undiscovered jewels left.

But I also believe because of the housing bubble/burst, because of a budget that is targeting homeowners as a major source of monies, that we are in for a rough few years.

I think there will be people in danger of losing their homes to real estate taxes. I think people may have to sit on homes because the market is softer and the profits to make up for the taxes will be harder to realize. I think that aviation firm coming in a few years could create a new economy. But it's a wait and see for now.

Shopping. Yes, there is some. Also, Albany and Glens Falls. And the demographics of the area have some sharp contrats. (which I guess are based on the number of teeth one has?<g>)

[vter]

I agree that Plattsburgh has HUGE potential. How could it not? It's on the lake, next to the ADKs, has a SUNY campus, and, as mentioned, a huge aviation company will be setting up shop at the old AFB in the future. It's also close to Montreal, and an easy drive down to Albany. Plus, you've got beautiful Vermont on the other side of the lake
Dan Stewart was a great cheerleader for Plattsburgh...I hope the new mayor keeps his enthusiasm alive.
How is the downtown/waterfront hotel project coming along? I havent been over there for a while. Also need to check out the new road through Cumberland Head. I bet the folks along the old road are psyched not to have all that traffic go by!

[barbaloo]

I live on the Head so 3 years later, I still stop, take a deep breath and 'see' the beauty.

However, I work in town, with people, so I see the real world of Plattsburgh too. They both exist.


The connector road is beautiful. I never got into the politics of the thing, but I think they have done a good job plus they created a huge area for the wild life to go.

The thing I would change the most if I could is that dang ferry. It costs over $200/220 a month if one works in Burlington. It cost about $15 for one and their car to go save money shopping there(said tongue in cheek)

Plattsburgh, while within reaching distance, is somewhat set apart. There are times I really like that. Because I can go where I want to go as a choice, but I also have the choice to 'get away' and be home.

After living in Silly Valley, that still has a certain appeal.

I hope the new mayor can think with some of the vision Dan had. It appears that the budget needs to rest and catch it's breath, but still, to grow, one must risk change.

[plattsburgher]

I am also a huge Dan-fan............(Dan Stewart, former mayor of Pburgh).....

Because he wasn't originally from this area, he seemed more in tune with what this area needed to attract tourists, people, businesses.......He was always marketing and thinking ahead. He was very savvy also. I met him once at Meron's (local watering hole) with his partner and because I had had a beer or two, quizzed him on his political pairings with Pataki. It was no secret that he was gay and Republicans aren't always great with that, and Pataki was Republican through and through.........Dan's answer was that the best thing for Plattsburgh and its economical picture right now was to get along with the governor. I have the feeling that he changed political parties a few years ago just to make sure we got projects (like the connector road through Cumberland Head) and funding up here..........The new mayor is a local yokel whose dad was a doctor and who probably never has had to work a day in his life.......................I am afraid. The upside is that he is only mayor for 1 year, I believe..............Then we have another election, right? I also agree with you about the ferry system. How much of a monopoly is that.........the only way across the lake to Burlington is a privately owned ferry???????? That just seems wrong. If we can build bridges across Lake Ponchartrain and Cheasapeake Bay for miles and miles, can't we figure out some way to build a friggin bridge from Vermont to NY????????? I feel almost like I am being robbed whenever I take the ferry.............and it is a lot. It doesn't seem right for that one family to become rich and richer because we never built a bridge. I would gladly pay the same ferry fee in bridge tolls because eventually it would pay for itself............Plattsburgh is a great place, but needs to be steered in the right direction. The next few years with this aircraft company coming in is either going to make or break...........The story goes that IBM came to Plattsburgh first and some genius declined to give tax incentives or any sort of comp to the company and they ended up in Burlington............It should be interesting to see what happens..........

[EDDOU1290]

First, about CITY property taxes, I believe, one major reason we see such high taxes is that CITY of Plattsburgh employees are paid far beyond State and County Civil Service rates /pay scales. Bear with me here.

Being a Civil Service employee myself, after learning the process of how to get "in" the system, I'm one of those "geeks" that reads everthing.

Payscales, or "grades & steps" as the "system" referrs to them, the payscales of the State of New York and Clinton County are very close. Example, A Clinton County grade 4 step 1 (step one being the FIRST year of employment in grade 4) is app. (give or take a few in the cents portion) is app. $12.75/hour, a NYS Civil Service grade 4 step 1 is app. $12.95 per hour, only resulting in a few hundred dollars per year more, now brace yourself, City of Plattsburgh grade 4 step 1 (yes FIRST year on the job!) is $19.79 per hour!!! AND they pay into the SAME exact NYS Retirement System that we do!! You will find this pattern from basic grade 1 to the last grade, which I forget, I don't have my printed union contract right near me, it's something like 24 or 25 grades.

Anyway, you get my drift, City of Plattsburgh employees are paid far greater than State or County Civil Service for the exact same grades, steps, positions etc.

Ok next, I think this one is for PLATTSBURGHER in particular. It is my memory and understanding that the primary reason Dan Stewart switched to the Republican party is that while he was a councilman on the City Common Council, then a Democrat, and just before throwing his hat into the ring to the then upcoming Mayor's race, then Mayor Clyde Rabideau was also a Democrat. So of course Dan would have to run as either Independent or Republican. I'm sure that what you said also may have had a major impact > getting in "good" with Gov. Pataki. However, being openly gay and a Republican, the fact that Dan Stewart ran UN-OPPOSED twice several elections later, and choose NOT to switch BACK to the Democratic party or run as Independent, left a sour taste in my mouth Gay&Republican is as good of a mix as > Jewish Nazi or > Black KKK Grand Dragon. Sorry if no one appreciates my analogy here.

Will continue this in next message so I don't get one of those "out of space" things again. I ramble too much!

[EDDOU1290]

Another reason for high City taxes, this figure goes back 10 years or there about so I'm not sure if it is quite the same balance, or in-balance I should say, but about 10 years ago it was said that 70% of City Property was TAX EXEMPT, i.e. schools, churches, City, State, County buildings etc.

Ok next, about the aviation company,,,,,, having worked with FORMER air force personnel in a civilian job for nearly 10 years, I can attest, DON'T get your hopes up. The people I used to work with were avaionics technicians, most of which have left the area.

In the Civilian economy, these are GREAT paying jobs!! HOWEVER, don't count on them being filled locally, as again, most all former avionics technicians from PAFB have left the area. Also, due to my current job, which I will not name due to the confidentiality issues, there have been several THOUSAND resumes already received by the local Dept. of Labor and One Work Source, all from OUTSIDE the area. These resumes of course will be forwarded to the Aviation company if not done so already. I'm sure there will be some janitorial, security perhaps, etc type jobs but they certainly will not be at the pay scales that people are hoping for.

The BIG postive in all of this is the Aviation School which is slated to be built on the former base, AND the fact that JOINT accredation for both Canada and the U.S. can be attained at this school.

Therefore, down the road, things could be brighter. The co-operation of all of those that are brining both the school and the aviation company together is great. There is obviously a plan and focus similar to what we saw when Clyde Rabideau worked so hard to get Bombardier here, several transportation and rail car related companies sprung up as well. Some of those companies by the way, Bombardier was obviously their biggest customer when they first opened in Plattsburgh, now I am told after being here several years, most of them claim Bombardier to be their SMALLEST customer, as they have gained world wide partnerships, sales, etc with many other transportation/rail car companies as well. This is a positive as the transportation/rail car related industries that came here after Bombardier are not life blood solely dependent on Bombardier's success or failure any longer.

The one downside I can see is that a large Aviation company such as this coming here, will of course have some of those very cherished high paying aviation technician positions, couple that with the Plattsburgh International Airport, I must ask, do not developments such as this tend to RAISE property values? and if property VALUES increase, will not the taxes increase as well?

I guess this could all be called growing pains. We need to find a reliable crystal ball because what exactly will happen is anybody's guess.

Lastly, I despise ALL Republicans, however, in all fairness, Don Kazperzak, from my former business community knowledge, has been a well respected business owner himself. I do not know much about him otherwise. However, he has 1 year to prove his worth. Should he decide to run again in the next election, his success or failure will certainly determine his political future.

[barbaloo]

>> >>Being a Civil Service employee myself, after learning the process of how to get "in" the system, I'm one of those "geeks" that reads everthing.<<

Yah, I have a local friend like that. The irony is that I am here talking Plattsburgh and not she. She has been here for over 30 years and probably knows what she is talking about.<g>

I, on the other hand, am just the poor ******* who moved here, trying to get out of the fast lane, and find out Pb has a lane all of its own. And it ain't fast!

That payscale for civil servants is outrageous! Even a non politically involved person such as myself 'gets' that part if the reason why the real estate taxes are so high is because we are helping fund others retirement. Frankly, I have all I can do to try to fund my own and at $12 something an hour (where I once earned $25/hr) doesn't allow for much prepping. To have to pay for another's retirement? At that degree?

I have no trouble putting Gay and Republican together (remember I moved here from Silly Valley<g>. They exist. Yes, seems like an anomoly to me too, but it happens. I know to make big changes, sometimes one has to play with the big picture. Not sure how adept one is if their experience is local only. For that, I appreciated Dan's willingness to challenge thinking and status quo.

Plattsburgh is a small world. Beautiful in its way, but still just a small world. It has booms and bubbles and bursts, like others..just later. It has greed and it has people who really care.

And frankly, I think its eating itself up from the inside out. When the aviation co comes in, I may have to review my financial/retirement plan...recoup my taxes in possible real estate profit and go to a state that isn't such a tax hog.

I will have to compare the beauty and the price. Just as long as they remember to at least let us keep some of the beauty.

[barbaloo]

[quote=barbaloo;188647]>> >>B
I, on the other hand, am just the poor ******* who moved here, trying to get out of the fast lane, and find out Pb has a lane all of its own.

Oh dear, I didn't think that word was censorable. I should have used dimwit?

My bad.

[plattsburgher]

Know we have veered considerably from the original post, but have to say was really surprised to read about the pay scale for city employees. I have lived here around 25 years and actually worked for the city school system for around 10 and had no idea about the "set-up" for city employees. Think perhaps a nice little "letter to the editor" in the Press Repulsive is in order to enlighten people. A lot of people in the past have blamed the city schools system, the former mayor and others (and I am sure there is more than enough blame to go around), but I do believe most people would appreciate knowing exactly how the pay scale for Plattsburgh City Employees is structured, so somehow changes could be made eventually????????? It has to start somewhere, right?

I realize school taxes in the city are high, however I have children who have received excellent educations here and have friends in other cities who pay huge tuition rates just so little Sally doesn't have to be in a below par school with teachers not even passing their own set of standardized tests and who just eeked out a C average, receiving a bachelors degree by the skin of their teeth and can't spell ****........(look for a bleep there). I do understand other people's frustration, however if they have no children or grandchildren benefitting from NY states high standards for teachers or the huge diversity of courses and extracurricular activities offered, along with the wonderful ties to this community. It is a fantastic community to be involved in with school-aged children. The schools go into the nursing homes providing music there, help with local fund-raisers, volunteer in soup kitchens, sell in the malls for hospice, on and on.......

I just can't help but think that IF this company comes in, even IF they hire 75% outside workforce, it can only help, not hurt this area. I know many Air Force people who, when the Air Base closed moved out of this area, although they really, truly wanted to stay. As a result, several local shopping areas and housing markets and school systems suffered. Our United Way is struggling because there are less companies donating this year and a nice company who pays a livable wage to people who live here for these jobs is going to help us all. From the local downtown restaurants to the car dealerships to people building homes. It just contributes positively to the tax base for the county and the city. If someone moves here from another place and their spouse/significant other has the disposable income, time, idea, motivation to renovate a downtown building and open a specialty shop, that is a positive step toward a increased revenue base for the city/county/whatever. It may help the city pay its bills, so that the tax assessor isn't pushed into "reviewing' existing assessments for local homeowners. I understand your point, but honestly how can it get much worse for local homeowners on a budget unless money starts flowing into the city, county coffers from somewhere?????? What is your proposal to make things better? I do think there are way too many people employed by the city, county and state here, but will see if the new mayor feels that way also. When you enter the government center and go into some of those offices or even see the lighting department or sanitation pickups, there are usually way more people standing around than actually doing work. I think some of those people could be cut, but then what jobs would they go to? I don't see how the new aviation company can do anything but help the economy here...........