How much is enough in Plattsburgh? (Albany, Binghamton: house, neighborhood, theater)

[EDDOU1290]

Ok
First,
Plattsburgher, thanks for the link info, but which one are you talking about? When I entered "Experience Plattsburgh" in Google I got results for .com .org and .net

Nunoco >>>>>>
I'd have to disagree with one thing you said to SNOWLANDCOOK.
City housing is the LEAST affordable, outside the City is much more affordable, but then again, I'm just talking about housing, not factoring in fuel, NYSEG etc. the much higher heating & lighting costs outside the City.

I'm sorry but I'm in the Apt. management business "on the side" (in addition to my County job) and when you start seeing rents for 2 bedroom apartments in the range of $900.00 - $1,200.00 per month for a GOOD apt. (NOT a dump, of which there are many here), in conjunction with this areas below par wages, I don't see much "affordable" housing in Plattsburgh.

What I DO see, (and I regularly show apartments to people) what I do see is people showing up, after they call and make a appointment with me, indicating that there are just 1 or 2 individuals looking, often 3,4 and even 5 show up because this is the only way they can afford the rent.

Also in past 2 years, we have found it necessary to install security entrance locks to common lobby areas just to keep the drifters, trash, druggies, etc. from loitering, vandalizing and/or sleeping in our hallways. Many other apartments in the City have begun doing the same thing, so I know they must be experiencing the same situation as the buildings that I manage for my landlord.

Lastly, the one BIG improvement that could be made, Plattsburgh has a long history (I've been here 39 years) of passing laws and then "forgetting" about them as time passes.

One being the City Noise Ordinance that was passed during Clyde Rabideau's Mayoral administration. In the beginning and during his time, it was STRICTLY enforced. But it has faded with time. This past Spring, I and 3 other neighbors placed over 30 calls to City Police over a 4 month period regarding the SAME tenants, 19 year olds hosting parties with 20 or more in attendance, most under the age of 18. Finally after 4 months and 30 calls, ONE noise ordinance citation was finally served and ONE citation for serving alcohol to minors. Go figure.

Also, the leas law got a huge re-looking at in 2005 when a womans dog (which she was walking ON a leash in her neighborhood) was mauled by a free roaming pit bull (BY THE POLICE STATION I MIGHT ADD),,,,,, she showed the pictures to the common council, pictures that the vet took before and after surgery, and the common council swiftly (in 2005 passed a new revamped leash law) ....... the point being, I can remember a leash law way back when I was 8!! and to this very day, I see dogs running everywhere, on bike/recreation paths, through the middle of downtown, and police just drive by ..........

There is not now nor has there ever been any real enforcement of city laws and ordinances. DWI is one of the few that is guaranteed to be enforced of course, but the "quality of life" related ones are the ones that seem to slip.

[plattsburgher]

Ok........This has to go out to Ed.

If the city of Plattsburgh's biggest problems are leash laws and noise ordinances, then it's not that bad a place, right? That wouldn't even make the newspapers or tv in most cities. By mentioning noise problems and cheap apartments, I have to guess you live in the college center area. I mean this in the nicest way, but can you possibly move to any other part of town? You won't have these problems if you move almost anywhere else outside of where the college is or where they hang out. BTW, we have also rented apartments before/between houses, and one of the predominate rental managers in the city told me that the differences in pricing of low rent and high rent is to ensure that a bunch of college kids don't move into a "nice" apartment complex, start splitting "affordable" rent, trash the place or have late night hours with all their friends, then skip out on the rent, so they make the rent high enough to keep the kids out. I agree rent for a nice place is outrageous up here but again, if you think it is high here, check Burlington, Vermont. I never see ads for roommates here, but there it seems almost a necessity to advertise to split rents to be able to afford a rental property there. Rental property here in the Northeast (like housing) is higher than some other areas of the country. I just came back from a business trip to NC and there were tons of apartments (with swimming pools, spas, tennis courts, clubhouses and tons of room and ample parking) for 600-700 dolllars. Land is much cheaper there and there is more competition for the rental dollar.
Sorry to also disagree (agree with Nunoco) re: city dwelling. Have had a house in and out of the city. MUCH, MUCH cheaper by far to buy house in city. 5 words explain it all: DIRT CHEAP CITY ELECTRIC RATES! However, if you are willing to heat with wood, pellets, etc, you can find a bit cheaper home in the burbs, but when you write that check to NYSEG every month, it doesn't seem so much the bargain. City has the best schools, regular and prompt trash pickups, bargain basement electric rates, cable or satelite option for tv, great phone service, you never lose power, and you save tons on gas because everything here is so unbelievably closeby and convenient. Back in the eighties when we lived outside the city, I remember doing laundry and running our dishwasher after 10 PM at night (we had small children so I was always doing laundry and dishes) because that is when the night differential kicked in and rates were a third? of the regular rate. I don't even know if that is offered anymore as an option? Can't imagine what the NYSEG rates are now if you are totally dependent on that as your only power/heat source. We also had a fantastic woodstove, but wood is messy and could sometimes take forever to get up to temp after being gone from the house for awhile.
Oh, and the exact words to Google are "experience Plattsburgh, New York"...........(guess you need that "New York" part to get to the city website). As someone in an earlier post said so succinctly............"My bad".
As for the outsourcing jobs to other countries......not exactly new news to me, doesn't apply strictly to this area, and we might need a new thread and much larger forum to address those issues...................I would love a nice bridge, however from Pburgh to Vermont......Can we work on that first, then move on to global economics???? Have a great night!

[nunoco]

[quote=EDDOU1290;208052]There is a ferry that docks right smack in downtown Burlington. But it's at Port Kent on the NY side, and THAT crossing takes 1 hour. Since Burlington is about 25-28 miles South of Plattsburgh, a direct ferry from the downtown area of Plattsburgh to downtown Burlington would probably take 1.5 to 2 hours.

I'm talking about a different kind of boat, like the high-speed no-car ferries that operate between New Jersey and NYC. I'm thinking that the Plattsburgh-Burlington crossing could be shortened to the 1-hour range if you're not using Lake Champlain Ferry Co's gassy chugalug boats, though it's just a guesstimate and I could be wrong.

"I agree though, there should be a bridge."
Me too, but every time they release a study, it sounds like it was written by the ferry cos.

One other thing: Why doesn't Plattsburgh have a good blog, so people like us can throw around stimulating ideas like this?

[plattsburgher]

Love the idea! Think with all the changes happening in the next few months around here, there might be some willingness to try more new ideas. I fully understand where you are coming from re: ferry. IF there was an incentive or grant to help things along as you suggested, we could actually have a real efficient way of crossing instead of the dieselly, smelly, barge we now have. I mean if Pataki (today's newspaper) can come here and drop 6.7 MILLION dollars to renovate 24 miles of antiquated railroad track between the bustling metropolises of Tupper Lake and Saranac Lake and promise more bucks to rehost the winter Olympics, then why not an actual project that inproves the daily quality of life for two large (for upstate New York standards) population areas.........How do you set up a blog anyway??????????? I will help anyway that I can............

[nunoco]

Originally Posted by plattsburgher

Love the idea! Think with all the changes happening in the next few months around here, there might be some willingness to try more new ideas. I fully understand where you are coming from re: ferry. IF there was an incentive or grant to help things along as you suggested, we could actually have a real efficient way of crossing instead of the dieselly, smelly, barge we now have. I mean if Pataki (today's newspaper) can come here and drop 6.7 MILLION dollars to renovate 24 miles of antiquated railroad track between the bustling metropolises of Tupper Lake and Saranac Lake and promise more bucks to rehost the winter Olympics, then why not an actual project that inproves the daily quality of life for two large (for upstate New York standards) population areas.........How do you set up a blog anyway??????????? I will help anyway that I can............

Exactly on the Pataki pork.
I've been to a blogging seminar and don't think it's that tough, though I'd need to review how to do it. One big hurdle is a catchy name. Plattsblog was taken by Plattsburghonline.com, from what I remember, but that site is now appears dead. Plattsblogh?
How about ChamplainTaste?

[plattsburgher]

Here goes.....................Plattsbloggers??????????? ? or Plattsbloggerz? That's my best shot so far...............anyone else out there????????? Really do think it is a cool idea for us to have a forum to just shake things up a bit. Never hurts to throw some ideas around even if they get shot down........might get picked up somewhere down the road eventually?

[nunoco]

OK, I've hijacked this thread, but starting a blog was simpler than I thought. I opened it last night (before I got Plattsburgher's name suggestion--sorry!). It's called Champlain Taste. It's at http://champlaintaste.blogspot.com (broken link). It will be dedicated to Plattsburgh, Lake Champlain and New York's North Country.

[nny12972]

Mornin'...
Plattsburgher gave you a lot of good info, for sure...but there's more!

The fastest growing areas are all outside the city limits---the city has no room to "expand." The reason for the high taxes IN the city are primarily that about something like 40%(maybe more?) of the property is tax-exempt---FED, state, county, city, college, and church properties---and the city (PUBLIC AND PRIVATE $$$) is undergoing major updating. Although there are some very nice neighbourhoods, the closer you live to the college, the greater the liklihood for somewhat boisterous college kids---fact of life in any college town...but there are some real nice older neighborhoods if that's your thing, as well as a lot others which were developed as the Air Force base got going in the 50s...and that same development occurred in outlying towns. No two ways about it---like almost any area with nice waterfront, that property is expensive. But here's plenty of low-cost, or no-cost access to the lake at state and city parks---some of the best you'll ever find.
But, if I was looking for opportunities to start over in this area, I'd be looking at "the TOWN OF PLATTSBURGH," which abuts the city on the north, west, and south. The development is max in the TOWN, resulting in good commercial tax base, good services, moderate property costs, and LOW taxes---and with room for decent size residential lots, green space, and none of that downtown congestion or noise---and from almost anywhere in the TOWN, you can get to both the interstate and anything in the city or adjacent retail areas in a matter of 10-15 minutes....almost all of the major retail outlets for most of Clinton County are located in the TOWN (immediately adjacent to the interstae and major routes) rather than the city....the Malls (3) are fairly representative of metro areas, but lack a lot of the major chains....far more than I need however.
For all the reasons Plattsburgher mentioned, including the redevelopment of the 5,000 acre former Air Base, there is a fair amount of development going on... the new airport facility located on the former Air Base is nearly finished and will open in' 07...it's very likely that development will continue there as well.
Other outlying small towns all have their pluses and minuses! A few are what I think you and I both would call red-neck....after bouncing around with USAF, I can say they're everywhere!
Cultural activities locally present as well. A lot going on with the college, some with the Community College, local arts council, and many of the schools and parishes have lots of things going on. Plattsburgher already hit many of the city things, but there are so many more.
The two ferries whic run year-round to VT....one in the TOWN of Plattsburgh (north side of city), and one from Essex, NY (about 35 south of the city), both run around $17 for car/driver...something like $12-$13 if you purchase the commuter book of tickets. (they run 2-3 boats each hour, each may dependiing on the tourista traffic and time of day---they cut back to 1 each hour late at night)The VT side of the area does open up further employment, recreation, and cultural activities. Many Burlington, VT residents are relocating to the greater PLattsburgh area to escape the even higher taxes and cost of living on their side of the lake.
I came up her with USAF in '79....met a very welcoming Plattsburgh area! They've hosted the Air Base, college, and some major employers for a long time...doubt you'll find a more congenial area...
The bugs are no worse here than in MN! Sure, you have that late spring peak if it's damp, but it's not a big deal unless you want to live in the woods....
Hope I've added some better understanding...I'll echo Plattsburgher's one thought---if you're looking for city nightlife, you won't find it here---at least not "clubs" etc......there are lots of things to do, but they are low-key and smaller events....church, civic groups, and municipal events.....and more than enough for me with all the oudoor opportunities!
Jack

[plattsburgher]

Thanks for backing up the general idea that Pburgh isn't a bad little place to live in AT ALL!!! Just the natural assets alone and location is enough to make it a positive experience, but I have found that the people truly do make a huge difference. I was all prepared for "we don't like outsiders here" mentality, but instead people are genuinely interested in and enjoy newcomers. This might be due to positive experiences in the past with military, and college, businesses, and Canadians who bring in the bucks for the locals, but whatever the reason, it is very refreshing!

I just had to try to dispel the notion also that this is some sort of crime-ridden town.....far from it. Maybe people who have never lived in other spots have noticed some changes in the past few years. Actually, I have also. I used to go everywhere (post office, grocery) and almost know everyone around, but there are lots of new people here now, it seems. That might be frightening for someone who has lived here their entire life to see so many unfamiliar faces and many more minority faces, but it is nice to see more diversity in the hospital here and college and just around the city in general.

Know what you mean about living in the burbs of Pburgh.......Peru, Morrisonville, Chazy, and Beekmantown all have better buys for their homes dollar for dollar, but my point was that when you factor in the heating and energy costs (unless you plan extremely well for it), the electric costs and city school districts pay for themselves in my book, but I know lots of people that are thrilled to live on top of Rand Hill Road in that subdivision, cross country ski through apple orchards, look out a window to see Lake Champlain and have their kids ride the bus to school every morning. Depends on how you want to spend your money.......

Know this whole post began about taxes.......I agree with what you say about the non-taxed structure of the city proper, although with the sale of all the homes on the new and old Air Force Base and new businesses taking the place of all the old military offices, and a new mayor actually living here now, I think things will get back to normal. IMO, I have lived in places where there have been low taxes and sometimes it is true, you do get what you pay for............the schools were horrid (sports cutbacks, no trips, extremely crowded classrooms, no extracurricular offerings, no clubs or funds for anything but old books).....morale of both teachers and students was lower than low and nobody wanted to be there in school. Here it is much different. Also, clean streets, great parks with jogging paths and tennis courts and nice new equipment and landscaping, and nicely groomed trees and flowers and cut grass and people actually picking up after their dogs! People do seem to take pride in the city green spots for the most part. I used to just walk down to the local football field on nice crisp Friday nights to walk the dog and it didn't matter which school team was playing, the crowds were always there and it was a very well-mannered crowd. Didn't have to worry about crime or thugs or people hanging out in the parking lot up to no good. I would stay for awhile, then just walk back home in the dark for blocks. I mean you might hear a curse word or two from a teen (or parent), but did that for years and saw lots of other folks out walking at night and never ever felt threatened. There is something to be said for that feeling also. I could continue but don't want to run out of room.......also still feels good to know that even though the city has grown, I can still call a particular office (recycling, water, police) and ask a question, get an actual person on the phone and they will more than likely either answer the question right then, or call me back that same day with the answer. The fact that I can still do that tomorrow just blows me away! The other part is that I might actually run into someone at the grocery, church, dinner, movie, etc and just say hi and they might even remember who I am. No, my taxes might be higher than those of people living in Florida or Texas, but I think I have the better end of the deal, by far! Have a great night!

[Taboo]

Hey,
Taboo here.. was on Champlain Taste but can not get back on. Will not accept my password or something. HELP!!!! OH, in answer to your question.. heard about Champlain Taste here !!!