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Sad but true. A lot of older farmers, guys who have been successful and own alot of the land they work outright as well as equipment, end up just selling out when they're ready to retire because their kids don't want to farm because they can make more money working off the farm.
There was always a social stigma towards any manual labor job, including agriculture. But there are problems with urban lifestyle as well. In NYC we have a rapidly growing HOMELESS population, a population which would dramatically expand if welfare benefits were cut. A lot of people moved to NYC from other states and other countries because New York welfare benefits are more generous than most places.
A lot of NYC area people attend private colleges upstate, Cornell University, Syracuse University, Wells College, Ithaca College, etc. But basically your point stands, universities are major employers upstate.
I don't think that the upstate private colleges would be as impacted as the public colleges because the tuition at privates doesn't change depending upon in-state residence, which is why I didn't include them. A school like SUNY at Buffalo, however, which draws a significant percentage of its student body from downstate would be devastated because many, perhaps most, downstate students would go elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
This is true of rural areas all across America. Technological advances have made it possible for far fewer people to produce even more food.
It's just not rural America. It's also urban America because automation has enabled so many manufacturers to produce so much with many fewer workers. One of my brothers works at Otokompu Brass in Buffalo (once known as Anaconda American Brass) where he and 1 other worker can produce as much product in an 8 hour shift as 8 or 10 workers produced back in the 1970s --and it's consistent quality because the machinery is controlled by computers.
I think New York City should become its own state for so many reasons. New York City pays state taxes even though the state does not do much for it. City taxes are high enough. If New York City was a state, I think that the economy really would be much better. New York City is such a diverse and rich city with less crime than any other major US city, and lots of culture. As a state (of course, the state would not just include Manhattan, but also include all 5 bouroughs of New York and Long Island, and possibly another county or 2. Many places in Upstate New York also support sucession because they feel that New York City has too much political Power.
Most people in New York City consider anything north of New York City, "Upstate", so there is already that mentality that we are not really part of what goes on in New York City. There is also a ton of pride from people who live in New York City and there is a reason for it. I think it would be very possible for New York City to succeed from New York, and I think that New York City really would be much better off on its own.
I think New York City should become its own state for so many reasons. New York City pays state taxes even though the state does not do much for it. City taxes are high enough. If New York City was a state, I think that the economy really would be much better. New York City is such a diverse and rich city with less crime than any other major US city, and lots of culture. As a state (of course, the state would not just include Manhattan, but also include all 5 bouroughs of New York and Long Island, and possibly another county or 2. Many places in Upstate New York also support sucession because they feel that New York City has too much political Power.
Most people in New York City consider anything north of New York City, "Upstate", so there is already that mentality that we are not really part of what goes on in New York City. There is also a ton of pride from people who live in New York City and there is a reason for it. I think it would be very possible for New York City to succeed from New York, and I think that New York City really would be much better off on its own.
Anyone who thinks NYC or NYS will separate from each other is smoking some weird stuff. Every state is mostly rural, with a lot of people concentrated in a few urban centers. If NYC were allowed to become its own state, every other major city could become its own state.
Its not viable politically or economically. Only Congress has the authority to make new states, btw. To tell you the truth, downtown is not unified. There are a lot of people in Long Island that hate the city and never go there. People in NYC's outer boroughs, unless they work in Manhattan, often don' t go into Manhattan either.
There were repeated proposals to charge those of us from the outer boroughs and suburbs tolls just to drive into Manhattan under the Bloomberg administration, and I'm sure these proposals will resurface again at some point. Some unified state.
Every major city in any state has a lot of political power, because of more people and more money. This is true in GA, CA, IL, TX, wherever.
The economic problem we do have won't be stopped by separation. NYS will still be affected by the technological changes that made most small farms redundant, and by the economic changes that got rid of much of the manufacturing. NYC will still be expensive, will still have a lot of homeless people, and that won't change, either.
Anyone who thinks NYC or NYS will separate from each other is smoking some weird stuff. Every state is mostly rural, with a lot of people concentrated in a few urban centers. If NYC were allowed to become its own state, every other major city could become its own state.
Its not viable politically or economically. Only Congress has the authority to make new states, btw. To tell you the truth, downtown is not unified. There are a lot of people in Long Island that hate the city and never go there. People in NYC's outer boroughs, unless they work in Manhattan, often don' t go into Manhattan either.
There were repeated proposals to charge those of us from the outer boroughs and suburbs tolls just to drive into Manhattan under the Bloomberg administration, and I'm sure these proposals will resurface again at some point. Some unified state.
Every major city in any state has a lot of political power, because of more people and more money. This is true in GA, CA, IL, TX, wherever.
The economic problem we do have won't be stopped by separation. NYS will still be affected by the technological changes that made most small farms redundant, and by the economic changes that got rid of much of the manufacturing. NYC will still be expensive, will still have a lot of homeless people, and that won't change, either.
Very well said.
The issue of parts of states wanting to separate (or secede) from their state is widespread -- and it's been around for several decades, most notably since the 1960s when one man/one vote became law via US Supreme Court decision. Apparently, whenever a group of people dislike whatever the majority of the people in the state accept/want, they raise the "secession" banner.
When I lived in Nebraska forty years ago, there was always agitation from people in western Nebraska to secede since apparently cities and farms were the mortal enemies of cattle ranches. More recently, some politicians in northeastern Colorado have been beating the secession drum because they apparently think Denver and the other cities along the Front Range are too progressive for their tastes.
Anyone who thinks NYC or NYS will separate from each other is smoking some weird stuff. Every state is mostly rural, with a lot of people concentrated in a few urban centers. If NYC were allowed to become its own state, every other major city could become its own state.
Its not viable politically or economically. Only Congress has the authority to make new states, btw. To tell you the truth, downtown is not unified. There are a lot of people in Long Island that hate the city and never go there. People in NYC's outer boroughs, unless they work in Manhattan, often don' t go into Manhattan either.
You're forgetting two things. One, there is no other city that has a population than NYC in the US. Two, Downstate (including Long Island and all the boroughs) has more political pull in NYS that the entire rest of the state. According to Wiki, NY has approximately 20 million residents and 8.3 million live in NYC. Population wise it's almos split 40-60 Downstate vs Upstate.
NYC doesn't have to be made into a state. It could be made in a District like Washington, D. C. There's more people there than 39 states in just NYC.
If NYC didn't have the political pull in Albany, many people would feel very differently. I grew up in the Albany area and now reside in the Finger Lakes and people here hate Albany and NYC. The hate here is more than in Albany. Could be because WNY and CNY is forgotten about on many levels. What works for NYC has no bearing whatsoever here. My town is 60% agriculture and quite a bit of that is sent to NYC for sale. And we're still treated like something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe! Without Upstate, NYC has NO food and NO water! Maybe you should treat us Upstates a little kinder. We do control your water supply! You can have all the finance in the world, but without water, you die! All humans do.
Am I the only one who lives in Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse that thinks "The Big Apple" does more bad than good? I think that the government in Albany isn't doing enough to help upstate. Sure, Buffalo got a billion dollars, (well not really), but it is LONG overdue. I mean, look at all the grants that the city gets compared to the rest of the cities. I think that Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse should each get at least $2,000,000,000 each. Or better yet, have the state split in half.
NYC is an unofficial world capital. So I don't think it is fair to compare it any other city in NY State.
It might make more sense to devolve a lot of state responsibilities to municipalities such that local laws have a bit more power. What definitely does not make sense is a complete split--there is a lot that upstate draws upon NYC and its auburbs for especially for tax revenue. One healthy campaign has been the pushing of upstate tourism and agriculture to NYC and its suburbs which makes a good lot of sense. An expansion of that push would do wonders for both. It would also make a good lot of sense to improve and expand rail infrastructure such that affordable, frequent and fast service between NYC and other parts of the state is available.
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