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What's being proposed around Seneca Lake? I haven't read anything and now you've got me curious. I live less than a mile the way the crow or seagull flies from the lake!
I think there was a link posted earlier in this thread. It has to do with the salt deposits there at the southern end of if.
I have posted on other related threads on this topic. not sure where NYS is on this issue at the moment, but my contention is the same as others have expressed on here. It would destroy tourism in the central NY/Finger Lakes region. Currently, the local economies depend heavily on tourism, and as others have stated no one wants to vacation next to the noise and ugliness that fracking brings.
It's just not the scarring of the landscape, most of which is irreparable, but the attendant issues like increased truck traffic from the tankers, and the ones that haul away the contaminated waste water. Also, the drill pads are horrifcally ugly and industrial-looking and and the noise that emanates from them 24/7 is deafening if you are nearby.
Communities have to think long and hard about what they are doing and why. how much gain is there really and for how long? And after it is over - and it will be over because these deposits are not infinite - then what? You can never recover what has been lost in terms of community goodwill, harmony, tourism, the land/eco-system, any contamination of lakes ,etc.
*Also, I wanted to add that real estate values would be negatively affected. They are already low upstate, but who in their right mind would want to purchase a home or second/vacation home next to a fracking operation?
This is NONSENSE. You have obviously never even seen an operating gas well in NYS. I will go on record as saying that you are out-and-out lying.
Drilling rigs are on-site for only few days/weeks when the well is actually being drilled. The drilling companies do NOT work 24/7, and drilling is the only time that gas wells produce noise a person could hear from 10-20 feet away. No well or storage tank can be within 150 feet of an existing home.
Once the well is drilled, all that's left is a well-head and possibly a storage tank in a cleared area that's about an acre in size at first but which may shrink as the well ages. The tanks are green or white, usually some kind of plastic. The well head is a few pieces of metal that stick out of the ground about 3-4 feet. If the well is located in a field, the weeds and grass generally get taller than the well head by about late-summer.
Trucks are needed to bring in equipment and supplies during drilling. Once the drilling is done, the trucks are gone. Natural gas in NYS, and most of the US and Canada AFAIK, is transported by pipeline NOT by vehicles.
There is no 24/7 noise. There is no unsightly "industrial-looking" drill pad. There is no vast increase in truck traffic.
Having an operating gas well on your property or getting royalties from the gas well on your neighbor's property actually increases property values and has no impact on other neighbors' properties. Just stop piling one lie upon another.
Folks, the anti-fracking people are not anti-fracking because they fear the process and its impact on the environment. They are against fracking because they are earth worshipers, and natural gas competes with their fantasy of the United States having 100% of its electrical generation coming from renewable energy. Because natural gas is a cheap and abundant competitor, they must kill it.
You can look it up. There are organizations called something like 2030 Carbon Free, which actually think that wind, solar, hydro and whatever else they are dreaming of can power the American economy, including enough power to charge batteries in 150 million electric cars.
With respect to New York State, I can understand why there are concerns in wine country. But the area between Route 17 and the Pennsylvania border, has no tourism, no wineries, no lakes, and very few people. There is absolutely no reason why fracking should not commence in Broome, Tioga and Steuben counties tomorrow.
Another NONSENSE post, only this one on the other side.
There are legitimate concerns about fracking in NYS, and most people who oppose it do so because they're afraid. I think that the fear is largely unjustified but they are real in people's minds thanks to the lies and misinformation that some opponents spread by whatever means they can (see my previous post).
Furthermore, the lack of regulation of fracking by the PA government has resulted in the fracking process getting a bad name. What people don't understand is that PA has been "owned" by logging and mining interests for at least a century and a half, so their lax environmental practices/regulations shouldn't be considered the "norm" for all other states, especially NYS. Because PA is next door, people look there first instead of looking at Texas where horizontal fracking has been used safely for about 20 years.
Another NONSENSE post, only this one on the other side.
There are legitimate concerns about fracking in NYS, and most people who oppose it do so because they're afraid. I think that the fear is largely unjustified but they are real in people's minds thanks to the lies and misinformation that some opponents spread by whatever means they can (see my previous post).
Furthermore, the lack of regulation of fracking by the PA government has resulted in the fracking process getting a bad name. What people don't understand is that PA has been "owned" by logging and mining interests for at least a century and a half, so their lax environmental practices/regulations shouldn't be considered the "norm" for all other states, especially NYS. Because PA is next door, people look there first instead of looking at Texas where horizontal fracking has been used safely for about 20 years.
I have to admit I am one of those who have been looking at what has been done in Pennsylvania. My opinion of PA has greatly soured since all this fracking has been done and I no longer consider PA as a place I might one day live.
Still like to visit Pennsylvania though. One of my favorite states.
Another NONSENSE post, only this one on the other side.
There are legitimate concerns about fracking in NYS, and most people who oppose it do so because they're afraid. I think that the fear is largely unjustified but they are real in people's minds thanks to the lies and misinformation that some opponents spread by whatever means they can (see my previous post).
Furthermore, the lack of regulation of fracking by the PA government has resulted in the fracking process getting a bad name. What people don't understand is that PA has been "owned" by logging and mining interests for at least a century and a half, so their lax environmental practices/regulations shouldn't be considered the "norm" for all other states, especially NYS. Because PA is next door, people look there first instead of looking at Texas where horizontal fracking has been used safely for about 20 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
This is NONSENSE. You have obviously never even seen an operating gas well in NYS. I will go on record as saying that you are out-and-out lying.
Drilling rigs are on-site for only few days/weeks when the well is actually being drilled. The drilling companies do NOT work 24/7, and drilling is the only time that gas wells produce noise a person could hear from 10-20 feet away. No well or storage tank can be within 150 feet of an existing home.
Once the well is drilled, all that's left is a well-head and possibly a storage tank in a cleared area that's about an acre in size at first but which may shrink as the well ages. The tanks are green or white, usually some kind of plastic. The well head is a few pieces of metal that stick out of the ground about 3-4 feet. If the well is located in a field, the weeds and grass generally get taller than the well head by about late-summer.
Trucks are needed to bring in equipment and supplies during drilling. Once the drilling is done, the trucks are gone. Natural gas in NYS, and most of the US and Canada AFAIK, is transported by pipeline NOT by vehicles.
There is no 24/7 noise. There is no unsightly "industrial-looking" drill pad. There is no vast increase in truck traffic.
Having an operating gas well on your property or getting royalties from the gas well on your neighbor's property actually increases property values and has no impact on other neighbors' properties. Just stop piling one lie upon another.
Royalties. pffft. That's selling oneself for a few pieces of silver. What happens when the gas company leaves and the property is contaminated by frack water runoff and waste?
Gas companies are not only looking to get rid of the frackwaste where the gas is fracked, but are looking to ship the waste water elsewhere as well. So not only will those receiving blood money from the gas companies be exposed, the rest of us will be, too. Westchester and Long Island have both looked to prevent waste water from finding its way there. What's to say that gas companies aren't eyeing Lake Ontario or Erie for waste disposal?
Chemicals found in the air surrounding wells have been identified as known carcinogens such as Benzene and VOCs 5X the safety limit imposed by the US EPA. We've seen Benzene in the news before -- anyone remember Love Canal? Love Canal - Public Health Time Bomb
Quote:
Ten of the most prevalent and most toxic compounds - including benzene, a known human carcinogen - were selected for evaluation purposes and as indicators of the presence of other chemical constituents.
Colorado has enacted legislation in an effort to make fracking somewhat cleaner. Part of the legislation discusses that of the 363 chemicals used in the fracking process, 330 are toxic.
University of Missouri researchers have found greater hormone-disrupting properties in water located near hydraulic fracturing drilling sites than in areas without drilling. The researchers also found that 11 chemicals commonly used in the controversial "fracking" method of drilling for oil and natural gas are endocrine disruptors.
Endocrine disruptors interfere with the body's endocrine system, which controls numerous body functions with hormones such as the female hormone estrogen and the male hormone androgen. Exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals, such as those studied in the MU research, has been linked by other research to cancer, birth defects and infertility.
You write that people oppose fracking out of fear. Many of us oppose it based on facts.
This is NONSENSE. You have obviously never even seen an operating gas well in NYS. I will go on record as saying that you are out-and-out lying.
Drilling rigs are on-site for only few days/weeks when the well is actually being drilled. The drilling companies do NOT work 24/7, and drilling is the only time that gas wells produce noise a person could hear from 10-20 feet away. No well or storage tank can be within 150 feet of an existing home.
Once the well is drilled, all that's left is a well-head and possibly a storage tank in a cleared area that's about an acre in size at first but which may shrink as the well ages. The tanks are green or white, usually some kind of plastic. The well head is a few pieces of metal that stick out of the ground about 3-4 feet. If the well is located in a field, the weeds and grass generally get taller than the well head by about late-summer.
Trucks are needed to bring in equipment and supplies during drilling. Once the drilling is done, the trucks are gone. Natural gas in NYS, and most of the US and Canada AFAIK, is transported by pipeline NOT by vehicles.
There is no 24/7 noise. There is no unsightly "industrial-looking" drill pad. There is no vast increase in truck traffic.
To be blunt I'm wondering if you have been near any of the gas development in northern PA - that will enter NY as soon as the moratorium ends.
Each pad might have 6 wells on it. So take the temporary noise you indicate above, and multiply it by 6x - several days each time, over maybe a year or longer initial period, before the cleared area shrinks from 5 acres to 1. (The remaining 4 acres might have been mature 70-80 year old trees, or glacially deposited topsoil - that's not coming back to original conditions under the best of circumstances, will grow maybe scrub trees.)
The next category of noise - flaring the well. Jet engine for days to weeks - hopefully only once per well - but maybe 6x per pad as stated above.
Once the well is drilled that storage tank for the flowback or produced water needs to be emptied. It goes into a truck. The truck visits for as long as the well is producing. For 6 wells on the pad the truck visits 6x as often.
The pads might be every 1 to 2 miles. If a town is 6 by 6 miles under optimal conditions there are at least 9 pads in it - probably more.
Let's say the truck visits each well once per month. Times 6 for each pad, times 9 for each pad in a rural town - that's 54 more truck trips per month (probably minimum) for the life of the well field. Not even counting the trucks that would go through the town to service the next town.
And that doesn't even count the compressor stations - they sound about like one gate at a major airport, and yes 24/7.
To be blunt I'm wondering if you have been near any of the gas development in northern PA - that will enter NY as soon as the moratorium ends.
Each pad might have 6 wells on it. So take the temporary noise you indicate above, and multiply it by 6x - several days each time, over maybe a year or longer initial period, before the cleared area shrinks from 5 acres to 1. (The remaining 4 acres might have been mature 70-80 year old trees, or glacially deposited topsoil - that's not coming back to original conditions under the best of circumstances, will grow maybe scrub trees.)
The next category of noise - flaring the well. Jet engine for days to weeks - hopefully only once per well - but maybe 6x per pad as stated above.
Once the well is drilled that storage tank for the flowback or produced water needs to be emptied. It goes into a truck. The truck visits for as long as the well is producing. For 6 wells on the pad the truck visits 6x as often.
The pads might be every 1 to 2 miles. If a town is 6 by 6 miles under optimal conditions there are at least 9 pads in it - probably more.
Let's say the truck visits each well once per month. Times 6 for each pad, times 9 for each pad in a rural town - that's 54 more truck trips per month (probably minimum) for the life of the well field. Not even counting the trucks that would go through the town to service the next town.
And that doesn't even count the compressor stations - they sound about like one gate at a major airport, and yes 24/7.
I've lived around fracking for about 18 years just outside Dallas, Texas. I have never seen PA, but here in Texas drilling is very unobtrusive. I didn't know it was in my area until I read about it in a magazine!
I get the fear thing, but when I read about 'the evils of drilling' in some NY articles, it sounds like an exaggeration concocted to scare people. My real estate values are climbing every year. Why don't you look at other states where this has been done w/o fanfare, and safely?
The people against fracking don't believe the studies that prove it safe because they don't want to. It's always a 'flawed study' or 'paid for by the industry.' I think the pro-drillers do the same, to a certain extent. Both sides disparage the other and dismiss their evidence.
You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts. Fracking is not perfect, but it is the best alternative right now, like it or not. Independence from the middle east sounds pretty good to me, too.
Devastation and industrialization are fear buzzwords. Believe me, it doesn't happen-the environment and drilling can co-exist very productively. The choice is not one or the other.
I don't understand your point regarding what the differences are or may be. Could you be more specific? Does NY have magic fairies that make the flowback disappear without trucking it, or eliminate the need for compressor stations to convey the gas to pipelines?
A few years ago, some people were weeping and wailing when Bush committed the US to Middle Eastern wars. The only reason why US taxpayer money gets wasted in Middle Eastern wars is because of oil.
But oh wait, the US is now the world's biggest producer of oil now. Natural gas is used for both heating and electrical generation. This would further our energy independence from Saudi Arabia, and bring money into CNY, which needs it.
So for those of you who are so adamantly against fracking, you can help by rejecting all fossil fuels and modern energy needs. Get rid of electricity, modern heating, your automobile (runs of gasoline, a petrol derivative), etc.
Go back to living in the caveman days.
If you can't do that, its not a question of if, its a matter of WHEN fracking expands in NY.
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