Senator Clinton good/bad for New York? (home, statistics)

[a private person]

Originally Posted by garmin239

Brings money to NY? The state is facing billions of dollars in deficit. Bringing NY to the national stage by having her elected president? First of all that won't do anything for NY. Secondly we are still in the primaries, not even close to the presidential election.
NY still has high taxes. NY still has people leaving. NY still has businesses leaving. NY still spends out of control in medicaid and education. These are some of the top issues the state is facing and Clinton has not done anything to address these except empty promises.
And don't play the blame game with your biased opinions. A successful leader produces results no matter what.

The poor finances of New York State are due to the poor job being done by New York State government. The lack of tax revenue is in direct relation to the poor economy produced by the current federal administration.

A U.S. Senator can only influence federal policies and bring federal monies back to their home state. In this regard, Ms. Clinton has accomplished this task.

The only reason Uncle Rudy even has a chance to be President is due to Ms. Clinton. The conservative types believe Uncle Rudy can make New York a close race thus denying Ms. Clinton the electoral votes of her home state.

Regardless, you continue to complain about her so-called lack of accomplishment but have yet to specifically list what you belive she has failed to do. I wouldn't want facts to get in your way, but, you should try to list at least a few.

The fact is Ms. Clinton is well educated, intelligent, a stateperson and an accomplished politician. What more could you want of a national leader? Given access to the presidency, she has great potential to bring a new direciton to the nation.

Twenty-Seven years of conservative/neo-conservative, republican rule have left the nation in an anxious state and very close to ruin. Do you honestly believe Ms. Clinton could do any worse?

Devaluation of the dollar,
War on Terror,
War on Drugs,
Global Warming,
Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, and soon to be Iran,
No Child Left Standing,
Mortgage Market Melt Down,
Lack of business, scientific, technological ethics,
Gangs,
Rising gas prices,
Falling House Prices,
Underemployment,
Federal Torture Guidelines,
Offshoring Jobs,
Unaffordable college system,
Federal Deficit,
Credit Abuse,
Crime,
Unaffordable Health Care System,
Stagnent Economy,
Looming failure of Social Security System,
Illegal Immigration,
Runaway Unregulated Technological advancement,
Increasing Inflation,
Los sof American Manufacturing Capability,
Wage Deflation,
Decline of Unions,
Homelessness,
Drug Abuse,
Deterioration of Civil Liberties and Rights,
Increasing power of China and India,
Globalization.....

and your biggest concern is Ms. Clinton? Last time I checked the the republican conservative movement had virtual one party control over everything for the last eight years. They've held the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years.

"Ray-Gun", Big Bush, Very Little Bush. All, so-called conservatives. Gee, I wonder where the problems are rooted?

Enough already, it is time for the political pendulum to swing back.

. . . - - - . . . America is Burning

[garmin239]

Yes the poor job done by the state govt and she is part of the state govt. She is not the sole person responsible for the troubles but she has not done anything to help. Yes she is a senator but senators have more influence on what is done on a state level than you think. She made promises that overreached what a senator should do (promising 200k jobs) and did not come through. Don't make large promises that you can't keep.
Clinton's accomplishments in bringing in federal money is minimal at best. Interest groups have done a better job at this, not her.


"Regardless, you continue to complain about her so-called lack of accomplishment but have yet to specifically list what you belive she has failed to do. I wouldn't want facts to get in your way, but, you should try to list at least a few."

You should go back and read because several people in this thread in including me have listed several things. You are choosing to ignore them. Population decreasing, taxes, jobs; these are all things that she has some say in. Even with being a senator. She has done absolutely nothing to remedy these problems.
You saying she is educated, intelligent and accomplished does not make it true. You have yet to provide us with anything of substance that proves your point. You just keep repeating cliches and rhetoric.
The fact that you blindly bash conservatives and republicans takes away any credibility that you have. I find it funny that you bash conservatives and republicans while Clinton's behavior represents a republican or conservative in many instances.

[a private person]

Originally Posted by garmin239

Yes the poor job done by the state govt and she is part of the state govt. She is not the sole person responsible for the troubles but she has not done anything to help. Yes she is a senator but senators have more influence on what is done on a state level than you think. She made promises that overreached what a senator should do (promising 200k jobs) and did not come through. Don't make large promises that you can't keep.
Clinton's accomplishments in bringing in federal money is minimal at best. Interest groups have done a better job at this, not her.


"Regardless, you continue to complain about her so-called lack of accomplishment but have yet to specifically list what you belive she has failed to do. I wouldn't want facts to get in your way, but, you should try to list at least a few."

You should go back and read because several people in this thread in including me have listed several things. You are choosing to ignore them. Population decreasing, taxes, jobs; these are all things that she has some say in. Even with being a senator. She has done absolutely nothing to remedy these problems.
You saying she is educated, intelligent and accomplished does not make it true. You have yet to provide us with anything of substance that proves your point. You just keep repeating cliches and rhetoric.
The fact that you blindly bash conservatives and republicans takes away any credibility that you have. I find it funny that you bash conservatives and republicans while Clinton's behavior represents a republican or conservative in many instances.

Ms. Clinton has nothing to do with state government. At most, she can influence and work with the local elected state officials. She has no vote in the New York House or Senate. Thus she can do nothing there.

Increasing taxes are rising in NY due to local politicians and the off-loading of expenses by the federal government onto the many states.

The decreasing population in New York has to do with people fleeing the high cost of living here as well as the poor quality of life in much of NY. Again not her doing.

Perhaps you would like to specifically quote Ms. Clinton. Perhaps you'd like to show us how she, herself, specifically; failed NY state? Let's see your FACTS.

Her comments where made pre-9/11. Is it her fault the idiot president decided to spend every available dollar on war and not jobs? The current administration is equally or totally to blame for the lack of new job creation in NY. Let's not forget, the last thing the republican/conservative types want to see is Ms. CLinton to be successful before going into the 2008 election.

You can blind yourself to the facts, but not to the truth.

Ms. Clinton has been educated at Wellesley and Yale. How many Presidents has Yale produced? You have only to speak with her to understand the depth and breath of her thinking. Ms. Clinton was on the world stage for the eigth years of Mr. Clinton's presidency. She was intimately exposed to the inner workings of the federal government during that same time.

Despite the best efforts of the conservative front, she has fought tenaciously against their personal assaults over the last two decades and still managed to remain a viable candidate for the highest office in the country despite conservative hatred and her own gender. Time to give credit where it is due.

. . . - - - . . . America is burning!

[garmin239]

She has much to do with the NYS govt. I don't know what your background is, but I am very familiar with how state governments work. If you don't think that a senator does not have a large influence on how a state government works, or the success/failure of a state, you need to study government.
The increase of taxes are not due to local politicians but are due to state politicians, something that Clinton or any viable senator would some sort of influence over.
I am aware of the reasons as to why people leave the state and never once blamed her for the root of that. She has done nothing to stop this though so she is guilty. She along with every other leader we have in the state.

Jobs leaving is not because of the big bad republicans on a federal level. It is the states fault. If it were a problem on the federal level, you would see the same thing in many other states, but you don't. Most other states are able to bring jobs in at a higher rate. Stop blaming the republicans for everything under the sun.

I'll ask you again to show us how she has been an effective politician for NY. No more empty rhetoric and buzz talk. Give us specific examples.

[rochacha]

I'm all for Clinton getting the Democratic nod. First, maybe she will resign from being the state senator. Second, she will get creamed and keep the Republicans in power. Congress is in shambles under the rule of Dems, imagine if they had the presidency too?!?! As for Hillary, anyone who has 48% of the population saying they will vote against her regardless doesn't stand a chance. She is too polarizing.

That being said, I will admit that I voted for her in the first election over Lazio or whatever his name is because I don't think he ever even set a foot upstate and I knew she would be in the spotlight and needed to do a good job. I didn't imagine she could do so without benefitting New York whatsoever. I would have voted for Guiliani in a second in the senator race if he didn't drop out.

If Hillary does become president, how fast do you think her NY home will go up on the market?!?! That will be the true test of whether she is a New Yorker or a carpetbagger.

[a private person]

Originally Posted by garmin239

She has much to do with the NYS govt. I don't know what your background is, but I am very familiar with how state governments work. If you don't think that a senator does not have a large influence on how a state government works, or the success/failure of a state, you need to study government.
The increase of taxes are not due to local politicians but are due to state politicians, something that Clinton or any viable senator would some sort of influence over.
I am aware of the reasons as to why people leave the state and never once blamed her for the root of that. She has done nothing to stop this though so she is guilty. She along with every other leader we have in the state.

Jobs leaving is not because of the big bad republicans on a federal level. It is the states fault. If it were a problem on the federal level, you would see the same thing in many other states, but you don't. Most other states are able to bring jobs in at a higher rate. Stop blaming the republicans for everything under the sun.

I'll ask you again to show us how she has been an effective politician for NY. No more empty rhetoric and buzz talk. Give us specific examples.

So basically, all politicians, not just Ms. Clinton; are responsible for the loss of jobs in New York. Is this your argument now?


Fact of the matter is the current federal administration has made going offshore easier than ever. Also, not Ms. Clinton's doing. The grand plan of the current administration for creating jobs in the U.S., is to allow the value of the dollar to fall so low that American workers are competitive again. So you get a dollar for your labor, but it can only buy a penny worth of goods. Great Plan, we must really thank you and the republican/conservative brain trust.


You profess an intimate knowledge of the workings of state government, so enlighten us on how a junior U.S. Senator has more power in a given state than its local state level elected officials.


Once again you attack Ms. Clinton on her record yet fail to factually show us how she, specifically, has somehow failed New York.


Thanks, you are the reason the Democrats will all have jobs come November of 2008. Bravo!


-------------------------------------------------
. . . - - - . . . America is Burning ! ! !

Devaluation of the dollar,
War on Terror,
War on Drugs,
Global Warming,
Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, and soon to be Iran,
No Child Left Standing,
Mortgage Market Melt Down,
Lack of business, scientific, technological ethics,
Gangs,
Rising gas prices,
Falling House Prices,
Underemployment,
Federal Torture Guidelines,
Offshoring Jobs,
Unaffordable college system,
Federal Deficit,
Credit Abuse,
Crime,
Unaffordable Health Care System,
Stagnent Economy,
Looming failure of Social Security System,
Illegal Immigration,
Runaway Unregulated Technological advancement,
Increasing Inflation,
Los sof American Manufacturing Capability,
Wage Deflation,
Executive Priviledge,
Decline of Unions,
Homelessness,
Drug Abuse,
Deterioration of Civil Liberties and Rights,
Increasing power of China and India,
Globalization.....

Last time I checked the the republican conservative movement had virtual one party control over everything for most of the last eight years. They've held the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years.

"Ray-Gun", Bush and Very Little Bush, all so-called conservatives. Gee, I wonder where the problems are rooted?

Enough already, it is time for the political pendulum to swing back.

. . . - - - . . . America is Burning

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by a private person

So basically, all politicians, not just Ms. Clinton; are responsible for the loss of jobs in New York. Is this your argument now?


Fact of the matter is the current federal administration has made going offshore easier than ever. Also, not Ms. Clinton's doing. The grand plan of the current administration for creating jobs in the U.S., is to allow the value of the dollar to fall so low that American workers are competitive again. So you get a dollar for your labor, but it can only buy a penny worth of goods. Great Plan, we must really thank you and the republican/conservative brain trust.


You profess an intimate knowledge of the workings of state government, so enlighten us on how a junior U.S. Senator has more power in a given state than its local state level elected officials.


Once again you attack Ms. Clinton on her record yet fail to factually show us how she, specifically, has somehow failed New York.


Thanks, you are the reason the Democrats will all have jobs come November of 2008. Bravo!



. . . - - - . . . America is Burning

There you go again trying to blame one side for everything. It is almost impossible to have a discussion with somebody as one sided and biased as you are. Companies have been able to easily move jobs off shore for decades to include the Clinton years. A good chunk of the job loss is not because jobs went overseas, many jobs moved within the United States to areas that have a better business climate. Many potential jobs went to other states instead of NY because of the horrible business atmosphere. You keep trying to tell us that the states job loss is because of the evil republicans and them moving jobs out of the country when that is only a half truth. Yes some jobs have left the country but many have not. They just shifted away from NY.
If you read what I wrote I never once said she had more power than the state officials, I said that she has influence and is responsible for the well being of the state. Her along with everybody else in power. And yes, all politicians including Clinton are responsible for the mess that is the NY state govt. I stated that earlier.
I have stated several times in my posts and gave examples of how she has contributed to the downfall of the state. You keep ignoring them. The job loss, people leaving, businesses leaving; she has done nothing to help combat these issues so she is guilty along with the rest of our leaders. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.
You talk about facts but you have not listed one thing that she has done for the state.

[a private person]

Originally Posted by garmin239

There you go again trying to blame one side for everything. It is almost impossible to have a discussion with somebody as one sided and biased as you are. Companies have been able to easily move jobs off shore for decades to include the Clinton years. A good chunk of the job loss is not because jobs went overseas, many jobs moved within the United States to areas that have a better business climate. Many potential jobs went to other states instead of NY because of the horrible business atmosphere. You keep trying to tell us that the states job loss is because of the evil republicans and them moving jobs out of the country when that is only a half truth. Yes some jobs have left the country but many have not. They just shifted away from NY.
If you read what I wrote I never once said she had more power than the state officials, I said that she has influence and is responsible for the well being of the state. Her along with everybody else in power. And yes, all politicians including Clinton are responsible for the mess that is the NY state govt. I stated that earlier.
I have stated several times in my posts and gave examples of how she has contributed to the downfall of the state. You keep ignoring them. The job loss, people leaving, businesses leaving; she has done nothing to help combat these issues so she is guilty along with the rest of our leaders. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.
You talk about facts but you have not listed one thing that she has done for the state.

Again Ms. Clinton is not responsible for local policy. If your job left the state for another state that has to do with your local officials who failed to provide a local environment conducive to job creation, retention of employers and business.

THe job of Ms. Clintons is to return tax revenues paid locally to the Federal government back to the originating state. This she has accomplished, so what are you complaining about???

Her other job has been to affect political change at the federal level which is in the best interests of the people of the state New York, as directed by the people of this state. Where is your evidence that she has failed in this regard?

If you want more or better jobs in your local economy, all you have to do is create them. That's your job, not hers.

We're still waiting for you to provide tangible, verifiable, objective evidence that she has somehow injured New York and its' citizens. Clearly you do not have any such evidence.

You have made your accusations. Now show your proof or go away.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Republican/Conservativemovement for ensuring the democrats will sweep in 2008! Bravo!

Finally we will have the opportunity to repair decades of Republican/Conservative greed, hatred and incompetence!


-------------------------------------------------
. . . - - - . . . America is Burning ! ! !

Devaluation of the dollar,
War on Terror,
War on Drugs,
Global Warming,
Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, and soon to be Iran,
No Child Left Standing,
Mortgage Market Melt Down,
Lack of business, scientific, technological ethics,
Gangs,
Rising gas prices,
Falling House Prices,
Underemployment,
Federal Torture Guidelines,
Offshoring Jobs,
Unaffordable college system,
Federal Deficit,
Credit Abuse,
Crime,
Unaffordable Health Care System,
Stagnent Economy,
Looming failure of Social Security System,
Illegal Immigration,
Runaway Unregulated Technological advancement,
Increasing Inflation,
Los sof American Manufacturing Capability,
Wage Deflation,
Executive Priviledge,
Decline of Unions,
Homelessness,
Drug Abuse,
Deterioration of Civil Liberties and Rights,
Increasing power of China and India,
Globalization.....

Last time I checked the the republican conservative movement had virtual one party control over everything for most of the last eight years. They've held the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years.

"Ray-Gun", Bush and Very Little Bush, all so-called conservatives. Gee, I wonder where the problems are rooted?

Enough already, it is time for the political pendulum to swing back.

. . . - - - . . . America is Burning

[garmin239]

I don't think you know how businesses work. A local business leaving or staying is mostly due to state policies. Many businesses leave because of state policies, not local ones. The insurance, taxes and whatnot associated with running a business come from the state, not the local government. The mandates that drive up the cost of business come from the state. A senator has some influence on the policies and Clinton has done nothing to help fix these policies that force businesses out.
Your job description of Clinton's job is too simplified . Using that description, you could throw a suit on my 3 year old nephew and accomplish what is needed. A senator does much more than that. Well an effective one at least.
You also say its her job to effect change on a federal level in the best interest of the state. She has not done anything in the best interest of NY. People keep on leaving, jobs keep leaving, businesses keep leaving. You have yet to provide one example of the good she has done.
If its not her job to create jobs, she should have not promised hundreds of thousands of jobs and not follow through.
I have repeated several examples as to why she is bad for the state but because of your lack of understanding on how a government works, you ignore the examples. By doing nothing, she hurts the state. When it comes to a state, every elected official is responsible. Clinton is an elected official and has done nothing to help the mess in Albany.
Until you can provide us with an example of what positive she has done for us or until you stop repeating your lame tired cliches, stop typing.

[a private person]

Originally Posted by garmin239

I don't think you know how businesses work. A local business leaving or staying is mostly due to state policies. Many businesses leave because of state policies, not local ones. The insurance, taxes and whatnot associated with running a business come from the state, not the local government. The mandates that drive up the cost of business come from the state. A senator has some influence on the policies and Clinton has done nothing to help fix these policies that force businesses out.
Your job description of Clinton's job is too simplified . Using that description, you could throw a suit on my 3 year old nephew and accomplish what is needed. A senator does much more than that. Well an effective one at least.
You also say its her job to effect change on a federal level in the best interest of the state. She has not done anything in the best interest of NY. People keep on leaving, jobs keep leaving, businesses keep leaving. You have yet to provide one example of the good she has done.
If its not her job to create jobs, she should have not promised hundreds of thousands of jobs and not follow through.
I have repeated several examples as to why she is bad for the state but because of your lack of understanding on how a government works, you ignore the examples. By doing nothing, she hurts the state. When it comes to a state, every elected official is responsible. Clinton is an elected official and has done nothing to help the mess in Albany.
Until you can provide us with an example of what positive she has done for us or until you stop repeating your lame tired cliches, stop typing.

Since you are the one being critcal of her work, it is incumbent upon you to SPECIFICALLY and FACTUALLY show her failures as you see them. Simply stating that she hasn't "this" or hasn't "that" does not make it true.

You have thus far provided only accusations. Clearly, you are indifferent to her work, her accomplishments and her as a person. It is obvious that your agenda is to slur her in any manner possible. You have catagorically refused to present verifiable facts. You continue in typical republican/conservative fashion to name call, accuse and deflect. As such it is not possible to have an intelligent discourse with you.

Since the adults have important work to do these next twelve months, I urge you to go back to your hole, take out your toys and play with yourself.

Have a nice day.