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Roads: PA seems to have many fewer roads than NYS has, and many of those are only gravel. Warren County also seems to subscribe to the idea that it will only snowplow roads when absolutely necessary -- and never use sand or salt. Removing long dead road kill from the sides of interstates or other major highways also seems to be something that PA localities, particularly in the center of the state, don't do often.
Education: New York's SUNY system has 64 campuses, ranging from major universities like SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Stony Brook to county/regional 2 year community colleges. In between are numerous liberal arts colleges, some nationally known like Fredonia State and Geneseo State, as well as a couple of 2 year technical colleges. NYC has its own college system: the City University of New York which includes both 2 year and 4 year schools. The idea behind these two systems is to provide every New York with access to higher education.
PA has nothing like NY's higher ed system. AFAIK, there are no public community colleges in the northwest quadrant of the state, perhaps the entire northern part of PA. Until Penn State opened its Behrends campus in Erie and U of Pittsburgh built its campus in Bradford, there were no public higher ed opportunities available to residents of northwestern PA. This remains an issue still because many PA residents attend Jamestown Community College despite the higher out-of-state tuition.
Culture: Just about every city and many smaller towns in NYS have libraries, most of which receive at least some public support. Many cities and towns have historic sites and museums. Public and private performing arts venues are sprinkled everywhere in NYS, NOT just in the big cities: Artpark in Lewiston, Saratoga Performing Arts Center in Saratoga Springs, Chautauqua Institute near Jamestown, the cultural festivals at Hunter Mountain in the Catskills.
Services to the disabled: New York pays for or actually provides an array of services to the developmentally disabled (mentally retarded) after they age out of the public schools at 21. New York reimburses private individuals/groups for providing room and board and activities for developmentally disabled adults and it provides group homes for those developmentally disabled adults that private organizations can't or won't provide services for.
Parks and rec: New York has a tremendous system of parks and wilderness lands. It's Adirondak Park and Forest Preserve, protected by the state constitution, encompasses the largest wilderness east of the Mississippi River. Much of the wilderness area is required to remain "forever wild". The Catskill Forest Preserve protects the peaks in the Catskills Mountains as well as parts of the New York City watershed. Smaller state parks are sprinkled throughout the state, including the 65000 acre Allegany State Park, Letchworth State Park which includes the Letchworth Gorge; the Goat Island and Whirlpool State Park in Niagara Falls; and John Boyd Thacher Park which overlooks Albany from the Helderbergs. Many state parks provide public access to lakes and rivers that wouldn't be there otherwise: Beaver Island, Evangola, Lake Erie, Long Point.
New York State also maintains state forests to protect watersheds and important historic or natural resources and perpetuate timber resources. These are open to the public for various recreational uses like hunting and hiking, and some are commercially logged. Many counties, towns, and cities have their own parks and even park systems. It takes money to maintain these.
Environmental issues: The biggest issue I have with PA is that it is pretty much "owned" by the mining and logging industries. That's why PA has had horizontal fracking for years, and NYS is still wrestling with the issue. It's why PA allows the disposal of fracking waste water in surface ponds. It's why it still has strip mines and naked, clear-cut hillsides. There's an exploitive, selfish attitude in PA reminiscent of "the bad old days" of the 1890s that isn't acceptable to most New Yorkers today, including people like me who own land with timber and natural gas resources and have to make decisions about the land. (PS: I'm not opposed to horizontal fracking although it's unlikely that my property would be fracked since it's already producing gas by traditional methods).
I think that the higher cost of homes in northern PA stems partly from topography (PA has steeper sloped hills and mountains and narrower valleys than does NY) but also from the fact that timber and mining companies own so much land there. That puts a premium on buildable land. Drive west on Jackson Run Road from North Warren to see what I mean. There are a lot of homes stuck on hillsides that probably wouldn't have been built on in NYS.
Where's there more land, the housing prices tend to be lower. If you look closer to Erie, home prices there are about what they are in places like suburban Buffalo and also equivalent to homes north of the border. Erie and the areas around it are much more like the rolling hills found in New York than they are further east in Warren County.
New York State also maintains state forests to protect watersheds and important historic or natural resources and perpetuate timber resources. These are open to the public for various recreational uses like hunting and hiking, and some are commercially logged. Many counties, towns, and cities have their own parks and even park systems. It takes money to maintain these.
Environmental issues: The biggest issue I have with PA is that it is pretty much "owned" by the mining and logging industries. That's why PA has had horizontal fracking for years, and NYS is still wrestling with the issue. It's why PA allows the disposal of fracking waste water in surface ponds. It's why it still has strip mines and naked, clear-cut hillsides. There's an exploitive, selfish attitude in PA reminiscent of "the bad old days" of the 1890s that isn't acceptable to most New Yorkers today, including people like me who own land with timber and natural gas resources and have to make decisions about the land. (PS: I'm not opposed to horizontal fracking although it's unlikely that my property would be fracked since it's already producing gas by traditional methods).
Very true. Natural resources and land in PA has mostly been used for industry, where as NY has used it more for recreation. As you said, the abundance of local and state parks in NYS also contributes to higher taxes (which I don't mind since I love outdoor recreation).
Linda has some GREAT points. I completely forgot about the SUNY system - and in the area where I live, we are close to both Corning Community College (NYS) and Mansfield University (PA). However, many students from PA choose to attend CCC, much like the situation Linda described at JCC.
Home prices in Erie were about on par with home prices in the "urban" areas of the Southern Tier, too. Both are reasonable.
And yes yes YES to the parks!! NYS parks are a wonderful resource!
I do believe that the oil and gas companies have ruined certain parts of PA. I like cheap fuel but I don't like destroying water supplies in order to get that cheap fuel. Besides, cheap fuel does have one downside... it discourages conservation. I'm no greenie, but I do believe in conservation. (Maybe I am a closet greenie.) It's actually kind of cool to see how much you can do, with very little.
You'd be surprised how much land, and how many houses, are sold without OGM rights transferring. I love how that works. "You can buy this house and this property but someone else gets to call the shots on whether or not they drill for resources on 'your' property." RIIIIIIGHT.
Frankly, I'd REALLY like to live somewhere that is outside of the shale gas zone entirely, so that it won't stand a chance of getting fracked or having its water supply damaged by fracking.
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The problem with the shale gas is we don't need it now. There are adequate existing supplies to meet are needs but the new sources are promoting export and expansion creating a larger market. It's all about profit and as most will tell you their monthly gas bill is not going down.
The problem with the shale gas is we don't need it now. There are adequate existing supplies to meet are needs but the new sources are promoting export and expansion creating a larger market. It's all about profit and as most will tell you their monthly gas bill is not going down.
That's true. Right now, natural gas prices are the lowest they've been in decades. If NYS doesn't drill (frack) for a while, there will be more gas for later (like in 50-100 years). It's NOT produce. It won't spoil. If you use it all up, though, so that some companies can export it to China, then we can't make more.
And yes yes YES to the parks!! NYS parks are a wonderful resource!
Honestly PA state parks (entrance fee free!) seem to be better maintained with newer facilities, better trails (and trail maps), and more evenly distributed. PA remembers that you need to clear a vista in the Eastern woodlands to keep it open, NY just lets them grow up in trash trees. PA will let you kill yourself on a trail in, say, Ricketts Glen if you really want to go in during winter, while NY gorge trails close at a hint of ice or any other excuse. The playground equipment is better in NY state parks, but that's about it that I can think of.
Linda's pretty spot on, NY's parks are excellent but I agree with Kioeh that PA does some parts better. Although PA lacks large preserves like the Adirondacks or Catskills, their park facilities seem simpler & require less maintenance than they do in NY and despite no entrance fees to their parks, they do seem to better maintain them than NY does theirs... another case, as with roads, where NY's system is inefficient. And for the past few years, NY's made so many cutbacks, I rarely see anyone at the park entrances to collect money. I also think PA is far superior to NY as to management of state forests. NY does almost nothing to theirs in my area, in terms of signs, road maintenance, trails creation & maintenance. But PA treats their state forest, mainly north central, almost like parks with minimal facilities, including maintenance of vistas as pointed by Kioeh.
Linda's pretty spot on, NY's parks are excellent but I agree with Kioeh that PA does some parts better. Although PA lacks large preserves like the Adirondacks or Catskills, their park facilities seem simpler & require less maintenance than they do in NY and despite no entrance fees to their parks, they do seem to better maintain them than NY does theirs... another case, as with roads, where NY's system is inefficient. And for the past few years, NY's made so many cutbacks, I rarely see anyone at the park entrances to collect money. I also think PA is far superior to NY as to management of state forests. NY does almost nothing to theirs in my area, in terms of signs, road maintenance, trails creation & maintenance. But PA treats their state forest, mainly north central, almost like parks with minimal facilities, including maintenance of vistas as pointed by Kioeh.
Frankly, I'd REALLY like to live somewhere that is outside of the shale gas zone entirely, so that it won't stand a chance of getting fracked or having its water supply damaged by fracking.
Vermont has completely banned fracking permanently. It's a law in VT. Granted, they aren't on the Marcellus Shale, but they protected themselves. I don't know if they're on the Utica Shale. But even if they're not and it's discovered there's gas somewhere underground it can't be fracked.
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