Dunkirk or Fredonia NY (Buffalo, Victor: to rent, crime, how much)

[CrissCT]

Originally Posted by ndou2

and yet the NATIONAL AVERAGE is only 323.2, which means that "horrible wrong side of the tracks dunkirk" is literally only 3/4 as bad as any average town in america. the economy there sucks, but any actual crime is relatively non existent when you compare it to just about any place outside of chautauqua county. the reputation exists soley because the surrounding area is dotted with villages full of 800 people who are all from the same ethnic and religious background (i lived in one. i know what i'm talking about) and they fear the fact that dunkirk actually has diversity and ethnic minorities. it's sad, but it's the truth.

I just gave my personal opinion that given the difference, I would choose Fredonia over Dunkirk. For such a small town it does have a pretty high crime rate. For example, the city of Poway, CA (outside San Diego), has a population of over 48,000 and their crime rate is only 149.1. My opinion is not based on some small town "fear" of diversity.

[ndou2]

Originally Posted by CrissCT

I just gave my personal opinion that given the difference, I would choose Fredonia over Dunkirk. For such a small town it does have a pretty high crime rate. For example, the city of Poway, CA (outside San Diego), has a population of over 48,000 and their crime rate is only 149.1. My opinion is not based on some small town "fear" of diversity.

granted, but it's still well below the national average, meaning that in the big scheme of things the safety in dunkirk is above average when compared to the rest of the country. the fear of diversity was a generalization as i lived in the rural area surrounding dunkirk and it certainly explains the feelings toward dunkirk of much of the populace. sorry if you took it personally.

look at towns like opa-locka florida, or east st. louis; places about the size of dunkirk or not much larger that have 8 times the national average of crime. as do several neighborhoods and suburbs around every city. look at newburgh ny, which is twice the population of dunkirk and has about about a million times the amount of crime. those are areas that resemble the one that itsmellsbad described. if the choice was fredonia or dunkirk, i would chose fredonia as well, as i've previously stated in this thread. that post was just to dispel itsmellsbads post about all of the " rampant crime " in dunkirk, because that truly was a lie as any real crime in dunkirk is more or less nonexistent (as the stats from this very site show).

[CrissCT]

Originally Posted by ndou2

granted, but it's still well below the national average, meaning that in the big scheme of things the safety in dunkirk is above average when compared to the rest of the country. the fear of diversity was a generalization as i lived in the rural area surrounding dunkirk and it certainly explains the feelings toward dunkirk of much of the populace. sorry if you took it personally.

look at towns like opa-locka florida, or east st. louis; places about the size of dunkirk or not much larger that have 8 times the national average of crime. as do several neighborhoods and suburbs around every city. look at newburgh ny, which is twice the population of dunkirk and has about about a million times the amount of crime. those are areas that resemble the one that itsmellsbad described. if the choice was fredonia or dunkirk, i would chose fredonia as well, as i've previously stated in this thread. that post was just to dispel itsmellsbads post about all of the " rampant crime " in dunkirk, because that truly was a lie as any real crime in dunkirk is more or less nonexistent (as the stats from this very site show).

And I do agree with you that Dunkirk is not really a dangerous area. I've never felt unsafe there (I still have family in Chautauqua Co. and visit often).

[popowich]

I went to college in Fredonia. It's a nice small town with a good campus.

-Raymond

[judicookie]

I have to laugh at the "spanish gangs" hanging out on the corners in dunkirk. I worked with troubled youth in dunkirk and really they are just wannabees...

the mayor and council of dunkirk have recently done many changes to dunkirk, including building a boardwalk on the pier. It has several very nice stores and is lovely. They now have festivals down on the pier with music, activities, water sports etc...

when the paper reports on crime and includes "sewer' violoations (urinating outside) you have to know crime is very low here.

I live in fredonia right next to college kids...no problems through the years except for some loud music once in awhile.

this is one of the best places to raise children, low crime, many activities for kids and families, I have raised my children and now my grandchildren here...

taxes are high which is why several of my friends who just retired moved quickly out of state

[ChrisMcN]

IRONMON has probably upped and moved elsewhere by now so my input will be moot, however, I feel the need to respond.

First let me say that I live in CT but I LOVE NY!!

I was born and raised in Dunkirk. At the time I HATED it, but that had to do more with my immediate circumstances rather than the town itself. Yes, Fredonia is the pretty one, but honestly Dunkirk and Fredonia meld into one and other so it's basically one big town.

Back in the 70s Dunkirk went through an "urban renewal" phase where most of the buildings were torn down (anyone remember the Capitol and Regents Theaters??) The town was basically obliterated and a series of empty lots were left. Dunkirk has never quite recovered from that, and the demise of the steel plant and other industries. Also, the power plant (what is it called these days??--used to be Niagara Mohawk--now Niagara Grid??) is a blight on the coast and that doesn't help. I'm glad to see that the waterfront is starting to be developed. There's that whole stretch along Rt. 5 that has a lot of potential and is crying out for intelligent development. It's really sad that the only real shopping is off of Exit 59 and at the plaza.

From my limited perspective (I haven't lived there since 1973) there are 2 factions--the "old" immigrants and the "new" immigrants. All I know is that first and 4th wards were predominantly Polish (and even they didn't trust each other!!) and the other 2 wards were predominantly Irish, Italian and everything else (someone correct me here) The elders stayed, their kids left and a new wave of immigrants staked their claim. Although the elders are not happy about this, they have slowly adjusted to the obvious. This is a small communitly, and as one poster indicated, people look out for each other--mostly because they're nosey, but also because they care.

Housing is incredibly cheap but the majority is older homes that need a lot of renovating. Industry sucks. On the plus--no matter where you are you're a stone's throw away from a beach or a water view. You're half way between Buffalo and Erie (and Jamestown) and you're not all that far from Canada. Sunsets last longer, and there are sidewalks that connect you with neighbors and places (I really miss sidewalks!) The pace is slower. Once when my dad and I went to visit my mom at the nursing home across town he scolded me for taking "the long way." I said, "Dad, this is Dunkirk--there is no 'long way!'"

In terms of snowfall, what no one has mentioned yet is that Syracuse area is the big winner. It gets more snow than any other place in the state (my brother can attest to that!!) They get the double whammy--lake effect snow from both Erie AND Ontario! Remember those pictures of Mexico, NY during the the winter of 2004??

I have to laugh. I asked my sister-in-law who is a teacher in Liverpool, NY how many snow days her school system had last year. She said 3. Despite the much touted "Nor'easters" winters are not as bad in CT as they are in upstate NY. Any hint of snow in CT and everything closes down. I think my kids were out of school for 7 or so days all total.

One more thing...we're at least a good hour or so from the ocean and any decent beach (there are a few wimpy "lakes" in the immediate area) According to my husband (who's from NJ) a trip to the beach requires a couple of beach umbrellas, chairs for each member of the family, beach blankets, an assortment of sunscreen, and snack and drinks (also boogie boards if we're going to R.I.)

And I always tell my family that when I was a kid all I needed to bring to the beach was a towel.

Ahhhh...for the good ol' days.....

P.S. If anyone's interested our "family estate" in Dunkirk is up for sale. I can put you in contact with my brother who is handling the details. He's put down roots in Syracuse and I'm still raising my family in CT so I'm indentured here for a few more years....

[milk169]

Good Day,

I am planning a trip to Dunkirk, New York around the middle of March, 2009 and I am requesting suggestions as to what interesting things I can do and see while I am there.

Because I live in Brooklyn, NY, I have not learned how to drive, so I will simply have to get around by foot.

I have to admit that I am intrigued by the mixed feelings one reads here when it comes to Dunkirk.

If anyone could offer suggestions to me as to what I can do and explore on my vacation in Dunkirk, NY, I would greatly appreciate it.

You can even email me directly at millk1692000@yahoo.com

Thanks! and have a great day.

Mike

[CrissCT]

Originally Posted by milk169

Good Day,

I am planning a trip to Dunkirk, New York around the middle of March, 2009 and I am requesting suggestions as to what interesting things I can do and see while I am there.

Because I live in Brooklyn, NY, I have not learned how to drive, so I will simply have to get around by foot.

I have to admit that I am intrigued by the mixed feelings one reads here when it comes to Dunkirk.

If anyone could offer suggestions to me as to what I can do and explore on my vacation in Dunkirk, NY, I would greatly appreciate it.

You can even email me directly at millk1692000@yahoo.com

Thanks! and have a great day.

Mike

Dunkirk recently added a Boardwalk Market along the lake and it is really cute. There are a few shops and cafe type places. It won't take long to explore though. There are lots of nice things in the area to see and do (wineries, etc.,) but you will need transportation. The area really isn't anything like Brooklyn, it is a much smaller city. Enjoy your visit!

[millk]

Thank you so very much! I'm sure I will enjoy and appreciate the peace and quiet in Dunkirk that I won't and cannot find in Brooklyn. It should be quite an adventure - and I'm looking forward to it. Have a great day! Mike

[cherdani]

I totally agree. Dunkirk is such a depressed area. Most of the factories are gone so the only jobs are in the local hotels, stores and restaurants. I think the city counsel is grasping at straws trying to revive the city with this "urban renewal". Who wants to vacation in Dunkirk? It's a depressed area. We owned a house there that was purchased for $37000 in 1983 (Dunkirk wasn't my choice of a place to live - my husband bought the house before we even started dating). In 2003, after putting about $8000 of improvements in it and a lot of sweat equity over the years making it a very cute and finished home, the place sold for $38500. What does that tell you about Dunkirk?? There are mostly minorities there, there are no places to shop unless you don't care about limiting your shopping to Big Lots, Wal-mart and Tops. The schools are terrible, they just push the kids through. I read some statistics one time where Dunkirk was rated real low as far as academics goes and the article told about how many of the students graduate and they are iliterate.
Fredonia is a little bit better since the college is there. The schools are higher rated academically. It's a bit cleaner, however the RE taxes are outrageous since Fredonia politicians think they are the elite and that anyone living in Fredonia are elites. The outlying areas are nice though if you like country living.
As far as the prison goes, it's about the only stable income with well paying jobs around (besides the college). It's about 8 miles from Fredonia, tucked away off a side road so you wouldn't even know it was there unless someone told you about it. It's a Shock facility (run like the military) with non-violent offenders that only stay 6 months. There is an S-block inside the fence that is maximum security, inmates are locked down at all times until they do their disciplinary time then they are shipped back out to other maximum prisons. I know this because I worked there for over 14 years (I now work for Dept. of Labor). At least the place provides jobs.

I would NOT recommend Dunkirk to ANYONE, especially if you have children. Fredonia isn't too bad if you can live with the high property taxes. If you like small town living I would suggest Cassadaga.