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Old 12-08-2007, 04:48 PM
 
79 posts, read 258,540 times
Reputation: 41

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When you live in a city with numerous strip malls, Walmart on every corner, and too many subdivisions to count, then you appreciate the architecture in Buffalo and the North. I really miss being near a natural body of water. The Buffalo Marina in the summer was spectacular. Oh, and let's not forget authentic Buffalo chicken wings & beef on weck...I miss home!

 
Old 12-08-2007, 04:59 PM
 
130 posts, read 172,951 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbertol2 View Post
Good infrastructure. Roads are in good condition. I can attest to this, as I've been all over Western and Central NY. No, they're not perfect. But significant decay has been a rare observation in my travels.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't mean to make upstate out to be heaven. But I believe that the many people who make it out to be hell are way off base. This area has many great assets, and I truly think that people will begin to value them more and more as they are exposed to the lifestyle of the sunbelt cities.
I agree with a lot of what you say--and yes, there is great potential here.

the problem is, that when people think of "infrastructure" they usually limit that theory to a common form of it--roads, bridges, transportation, water..basically public works. Yes..you are right...all of these items are well run.

However, on another level of "infrastructure"--a sort of blending of Barthes Foucault and Gramsci, Infrastructure can be considered a miriad of differing things, like the relationships beteween production.

Q.1.) In these relationships you have things such as social existence of the population --what are the living conditions like for even the poorest working families in the community?

Q.2.) How is the economic infrastructure of the community? Are there enough lower, middle and higher jobs for everyone.. or are the lower-middle and lower classes fighting it out for what's left in a darkening economy?

(PLease folks--don't rant that I'm smashing classes or being an elitist-- by definition, the middle class in the US often ranked at about the 100K level, depending on the area of the US you're looking at, the average educational level, and the official cenus line for "poverty"... No one ever likes to hear that) the jobs I'm talking about are UNDER the 50K level (with working 2 adults in a home, making that much each, that would take the family into "the middle class". Sad to say, some K-12 teachers don't make this much. ... The next time you feel like blaming teachers for schools, recall that they're in an honorable profession, doing thankless work, for nearly NO money!!!)

Q.3.) What's the ideological life of the community like? Is there a vibrant art community? Is the public educational level in each little community of the whole on par with better public schools? Do people speak out when injustice or inequality are pointed out? Is the community as a whole striving for a well-rounded community and willing to do a fearless look in their own backyard (and outside it as well)?


Q. 4.) What are the channels of communication between different groups like in the community? Are there groups which are severly underrepresented in "voice" within the community? Do differing social, religious and ethnic communities interact on a regular basis?

These are the above aspects that I see lacking in CNY.

Ans. 1.) Social Existence: There is poverty here like I've never seen it, and violence statistics to boot. NYSCASA (NY State Coalition Against Sexual Assault) ranked Onondaga County as having the highest reported incidents of rape in the state--higher than any in NYC! And the really odd thing--this statistic isn't confined to inner city. Onondaga County is large, and a lot of these reported incidents come from the 'burbs.

Ans. 2) Economic Infrastructure- they're trying, yes, they're trying. But the jobs aren't here. Over and over I've watched politicians and community leaders speak to the brightest and finest that Syracuse and surrounding communities are turning out, and they *practically beg them*: "Don't leave after you graduate! I watch the stony faces of young people who can't be convinced, and even worse--some who almost laugh and say "Are you kidding? I'd love to stay...but where could I work? I've got to eat!"

Ans.3) Ideological life of the community- The arts are very needed here, and there's not enough. Further, because of the pricing of most art venues, it's not accessible to a lot of people. yes, yes, you can get $15 Symphony tickets...but if you're a poor kid in a rural or inner city area...Just how are you ever going to get to these places to have your horizins broadened? But these kids have a lot more to worry about..

As for schools... I'm only going to say one word: SHEA. Schools can be closed down, not because they're in disrepair, but because of TEST SCORES!!! That's because of NCLB (No Child Left Behind) Friends call it "No Teacher left Unscathed"--in essence it's a big federal stick that comes out and beats down the schools that are in trouble...not that such a response helps...but we've let the school get to this point. The responsibility isn't on the students, the teachers, the adminitration or even the parents. It's on US. THIS IS OUR COMMUNITY. When the social infrastructures aren't working it's OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Ans. 4) Channels of Communication- This is the worst aspect. The segregation between groups (social, religious, ethnic) is horrible. Perhaps the ONLY asect in which CNY seems to be keeping up with the times is in the LGBT forum--politicians, local govt and various LGBT groups (SAGE, Stonewall, Empire Pride, to mention only a few) have formed strong coalitions and have good communication. Ther are alliances which cross over invisible boundaries...after a while, there are no "boundaries"... But in terms of race relations? Ooooooooohhhhh, this is (shaking her head) the saddest of all. The place where it could probably happen would be through religion, but the churches here do not seem as ecumenical as they present themselves.

I'm can't name off the solutions...that's complex stuff. I do know, however, that by pointing out a few things, (and btw, admitting there actually IS a problem here and there) that CNY, and specifically Syracuse, can become a place that people are envious of. That others know as a place of forward thinking, well run, vibrant, and strong in *all* aspects of infrastructue (not just roads!) I would love to take a vacation, wear a Syracuse shirt and have people walk up and say "CNY? Now THAT's the place to live!"
 
Old 12-08-2007, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Rochester, NY
75 posts, read 340,588 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmaniac View Post
I think some of what makes many people make it out to be hell, is that when you lose your job and can't get another life can get pretty crappy. When your dreams start to become unattainable, when you can't pay your bills, when you have to move your kids away from their best friends to get a job, you may start to have a real sour outlook on the area. I think its human nature, and it is understandable.
You're absolutely right. It is human nature to become desperate and disillusioned when you witness your dreams slip through your fingers.

The problem is, however, that many people come to this forum to vent. And when a person vents, he/she often ends up making some sort of broad generalization about the whole area. What happens next is the back-and-forth bantering that plagues this forum. I think most people have grown quite tired of this--I know I have.

I think it's fine if someone wants to come to this forum to share a negative experience. But maybe people should ask themselves their motivation before doing so. Are you coming here to provide constructive criticism, as Ham Sandwich did very nicely, or are you creating a post to give the proverbial middle finger to the whole region? People need to remember that many of the people on this forum are either here because they love the place that they live and want the best for it, or because they are looking for honest information about the area before relocating. Posts like "Buffalo + no jobs = bye" help neither of those groups.

Pragmaniac, I am by no means directing this at you. Your post just brought up a good point. People can vent, but they need to remember that an emotional and generalizing post is going only going to yield emotional and defensive replies.
 
Old 12-08-2007, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,972 posts, read 8,211,196 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbertol2 View Post
I've been silently monitoring this forum, as well as some others now for the past six months. From what I've seen, and from my own experience living in Rochester, I'm convinced that the next decade will see something of a turnaround for WNY and Syracuse. No--this does not mean that people will flock here in droves. However, I believe people will begin to realize the true attractiveness of some of upstate's best qualities: .
I feel the same way about Buffalo, while I am disappointed in our County government right now, it's not the city. As per crime, we have it as all areas do. Unemployment, we have it as all areas do, and so on.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 08:36 AM
 
79 posts, read 258,540 times
Reputation: 41
You're absolutely correct. Responding to negativity is a waste of time. Lesson learned!

I read this forum to find out what's going on in my hometown. It is quite disappointing and frustrating to see the constant "WNY bashing". It perpetuates the negative stereotypes that plague Buffalo...it does not help improve the image of the city or for that matter the people.

I always tell my new co-workers about my hometown and all that it has to offer. Why only focus on the negative? Moving away gave me a greater respect for Buffalo and New York state.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,972 posts, read 8,211,196 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmaniac View Post
I think some of what makes many people make it out to be hell, is that when you lose your job and can't get another life can get pretty crappy. When your dreams start to become unattainable, when you can't pay your bills, when you have to move your kids away from their best friends to get a job, you may start to have a real sour outlook on the area. I think its human nature, and it is understandable.
Something else to keep in mind is that while there are disappointing things around us, most of the people I know of who sit back and complain are also to least to raise their hand in helping something out. When you hear or read about someone so unhappy about how it is here, you can't help wonder if they've ever volunteered at a soup kitchen or the food bank, donated clothes and blankets to a church, to see how a way of life of the disadvantaged.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 06:32 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 3,367,031 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedupWNY View Post
Something else to keep in mind is that while there are disappointing things around us, most of the people I know of who sit back and complain are also to least to raise their hand in helping something out. When you hear or read about someone so unhappy about how it is here, you can't help wonder if they've ever volunteered at a soup kitchen or the food bank, donated clothes and blankets to a church, to see how a way of life of the disadvantaged.
Excellent points... and, this goes for Everywhere and Everyone... think about this too: in the WNY area there is a Huge population of deer... hunters could also donate venison to food kitchens... and have a good time doing it.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 06:55 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 10,809,362 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
Excellent points... and, this goes for Everywhere and Everyone... think about this too: in the WNY area there is a Huge population of deer... hunters could also donate venison to food kitchens... and have a good time doing it.
Hunters DO donate to the food pantries. So do the police who have to cull the herds which get into the burbs and people freak and want them out... much better than poisoning them.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,972 posts, read 8,211,196 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
Excellent points... and, this goes for Everywhere and Everyone... think about this too: in the WNY area there is a Huge population of deer... hunters could also donate venison to food kitchens... and have a good time doing it.
T&C, I can't tell if you're humoring me
 
Old 12-09-2007, 08:37 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 3,367,031 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedupWNY View Post
T&C, I can't tell if you're humoring me
To the contrary... I'm agreeing with you... it was an excellent post.
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