The Positive in WNY (Buffalo, Rochester: real estate, look for a job, school)

[itSmellsBAD]

Boy, those are some high paying jobs. Can you explain why, with all these great income figures, WNY is losing population?

Also, ONE photo of ONE plow in Buffalo doesn't mean they clear the streets in a timely fashion after a snow storm. Neighboring West Seneca has streets cleaned right down to the pavement while Buffalo looks like disaster area.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by itSmellsBAD

Boy, those are some high paying jobs. Can you explain why, with all these great income figures, WNY is losing population?

Also, ONE photo of ONE plow in Buffalo doesn't mean they clear the streets in a timely fashion after a snow storm. Neighboring West Seneca has streets cleaned right down to the pavement while Buffalo looks like disaster area.

rochester city
Median household income (dollars) $27,407
Largest income group in the city makes
Less than $10,000

poverty
Families below poverty level 24.3%
Individuals below poverty level 30.1%

monroe county
Median household income (dollars) $47,339
largest income group
50,000 to $74,999
poverty
Families below poverty level 9.1%
Individuals below poverty level 13.3%

buffalo
Median household income (dollars) $27,850
largest income group
Less than $10,000
poverty
Families below poverty level 23.8%
Individuals below poverty level 29.9%

Erie county
Median household income (dollars) $42,494
Largest income group $50,000 to $74,999
poverty
Families below poverty level 10.5%
Individuals below poverty level 14.5%




Looks like the city of rochester earns less than buffalo and has a higher poverty rate. It is not by much but both cities are very high compared to US average is 48k for income and poverty for families 9.8% and individuals 13.3%

I hate to see 2 people making $6-8hr as good income. $27,407/2=$13,703

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by itSmellsBAD

Boy, those are some high paying jobs. Can you explain why, with all these great income figures, WNY is losing population?

Also, ONE photo of ONE plow in Buffalo doesn't mean they clear the streets in a timely fashion after a snow storm. Neighboring West Seneca has streets cleaned right down to the pavement while Buffalo looks like disaster area.

I explained to you already somewhere here that in "timely fashions" how Buffalo clears it's streets. Does it need repeating? I can reinvest the time to provide the link for you (again). The picture of the plow shows that the streets in Buffalo do get plowed, maybe not at the rate in which you like, but getting done nonetheless.

West Seneca, (for all those who don't know) is under it's own government body and has it's own streets department of which they pay their own taxes for, as does Buffalo, Cheektowaga, the Tonawandas, ect. Because West Seneca is different in that perspective, the comparison is moot to how the entire "WNY" area is on snow removal.

Moving on, giving credit where it's due. This document confirms:

OFFICE OF THE NEW YORK STATE COMPTROLLER
DIVISION OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT SERVICES
AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Negative Population Trends – New York State’s population grew 1.5 percent from 2000 through 2005, but virtually all of that growth occurred in the New York City metropolitan area. Continued population losses upstate (especially among young adults) threaten the vitality of many communities. This trend has a negative effect on and has caused the fiscal health of upstate local governments to suffer.

I'm not blind to this fact and we have known about it for a very long time. I read the reports of pork spending every year and it sickens me to know what our taxes goes to fund at the hands of our politicians, yet here we are and here we will probably stay, but instead of repeating yourself like a broken record, how's about sharing some ideas of making it better? Or is whining on the negatives the only forte` you know of?

[NYphil]

Originally Posted by spectralman

Ho boy. Born and raised in Buffalo, and used to feel a strong affinity to the place. But I left in 1999 for the Pacific Northwest, and I have zero regrets. Why did I leave?

Reason number one was this:



Yes indeed - it's jobs. JOBS JOBS JOBS. Really, I don't care about the snow. I don't care that the Bills are cursed. It's about the lack of JOBS for people like me, and anyone else with a desire to be a part of the 21st century economy. I'm not just talking about jobs at Wegmans here. What do you do with, say, a degree in computer science in Buffalo? Or bioinformatics? Nothing wrong with manufacturing (what's left of it here) or service jobs, but it's not the sort of thing that will drive an economy today. Besides, if you bring the highly skilled labor here, those other kinds of jobs will come as well.

I do care about the lack of nightlife and the general decline of culture in Buffalo, but all of these things would see improvement if there were ... JOBS. Don't tell me again about the beautiful old houses. Yes, you have great old architecture and great history. What of it? A lot of us out here want to be where history is being made today, not just bathing in yesterday.

And reason number two was this:



WNYers like this annoyed me to no end. I got sick of the unending blind loyalty to Buffalo, and the subsequent trashing of all sensible criticism. This is a small-town attitude. And, sadly, that is what Buffalo is headed for: small-townhood. It will be a town of 50,000 or so people with a few bars where old guys sit around at the bar and yap away about the old days, and the streets are silent come sundown, and the majority of kids who graduate leave. The fiercely loyal Buffalonians are angry that everyone else doesn't see the city the way they do, but honestly don't care to understand why. I was one of you once too, folks. Then I moved out and gained some perspective.

Sorry, but I finally found a venue to get all that off my chest. It's been frustrating me for a while, actually.

Edit: I see I said I had "zero regrets". This is not true at all, actually. I regret that WNY never climbed itself out of the hole it was in, and only dug deeper. I wanted to stay. Honest.

You nailed it, brother. I didn't WANT to leave WNY, and it truly pains me reading the local newspapers to see my old neighborhoods truly crumbling. I'd love to be part of that "revitalization". But I don't want my kids growing up like I did- with two incredibly brilliant (and of course loving) parents getting totally HOSED on their income just because of what city they live in, having to live in an horribly poor area of Buffalo and then Rochester, struggling to make ends meet. If I could, I would move back, to Penfield or Pittsford or Amherst or Orchard Park. But guess what, I'm still stuck for a JOB, which in today's society, sadly, is the only thing that matters. Nobody's going to hire me at my salary upstate.

Not all is great everywhere else, though. I just moved from NYC to Westchester County 6 months ago, and it totally sucks. There is nothing worthwhile to do around here, and I don't care what anyone says, taking the train in and out of the City is neither easy or affordable.

[iloveupstateny]

Originally Posted by NYphil

You nailed it, brother. I didn't WANT to leave WNY, and it truly pains me reading the local newspapers to see my old neighborhoods truly crumbling. I'd love to be part of that "revitalization". But I don't want my kids growing up like I did- with two incredibly brilliant (and of course loving) parents getting totally HOSED on their income just because of what city they live in, having to live in an horribly poor area of Buffalo and then Rochester, struggling to make ends meet. If I could, I would move back, to Penfield or Pittsford or Amherst or Orchard Park. But guess what, I'm still stuck for a JOB, which in today's society, sadly, is the only thing that matters. Nobody's going to hire me at my salary upstate.

Not all is great everywhere else, though. I just moved from NYC to Westchester County 6 months ago, and it totally sucks. There is nothing worthwhile to do around here, and I don't care what anyone says, taking the train in and out of the City is neither easy or affordable.

I am really glad someone else understands this. There are the I hate this area/I love this area people on these boards that just bash back and forth...

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by GlobalTransplant

That was my very point! That the rich tend to enjoy the place they live in more, and can enjoy nature's bounty, and given that many in Syracuse are facing poverty, they are unlikely to be raving about it's positive sides.

I don't think the average person in any metropolitan area in the country (and defintiely not Rochester) who lives in a comfortable suburban home is considered "rich". I live in Greece, and sorry, but I just don't see this town, my neighborhood, or my house as any sort of "island of wealth in a sea of poverty".

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by NYphil

I'd love to be part of that "revitalization". But I don't want my kids growing up like I did-

Nice contradiction though. My kids are being raised in the same "revitalization" you say you'd love to be part of. Because they are second generation of "Buffalo born and raised" they have a far greater love of this city than any 10 adults who have moved away only to speak of what they used to have here.

Plant a tree and watch it grow but someone has to be there to get their hands dirty in the name of "revitalization" first. I guess it will have to be those of us who choose the stay as per (your own saying on choosing to leave).

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

I don't think the average person in any metropolitan area in the country (and defintiely not Rochester) who lives in a comfortable suburban home is considered "rich". I live in Greece, and sorry, but I just don't see this town, my neighborhood, or my house as any sort of "island of wealth in a sea of poverty".

Originally Posted by City-Data Forum Message

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to I'minformed2 again

.

Dang! I soo wanted to give you rep for saying that! We may not be like any place else, but we are "home" right?

[UpstaterInBklyn]

I'd like to weigh in as another former WNY'er who moved away for a job.

First of all, the economic issue in WNY is less about jobs and more about careers. There are jobs in Buffalo, but, especially in certain fields and professions, there is a severe lack of career opportunities.

If you are settled into your job, and intend to keep it forever (i.e. a tenured teacher), Buffalo is great place to live. In fact, the biggest advantage of the low cost of living in WNY is that ordinary wage-earners like nurses, cops, teachers, etc., can afford a relatively nice lifestyle on $40K-$60K a year. Here in NYC and in other high-cost metros, those types of jobs can't even pay the rent.

The problem, however, is that if you are looking to build a career, Buffalo offers limited opportunity for growth. Health care is the only field I can think if that offers growth and multiple opportunities, but this is the case anywhere in the country. Growing areas with vibrant economies offer the chance to get a meaningful job and chance to grow.

My wife and I moved out of Buffalo in mid-life and mid-career because we were simultaneously unemployed and stuck. I'm a technology Product Manager and she works in wholesale travel.

I can't imagine ever going back, because even if I were offered a "dream job" in WNY, what would happen if I was laid off? We'd have the pack the U-Haul all over again. I know if that happens here in NYC, there are hundreds of other potential employers.

WNY is a GREAT place to live, if you have your job/career situation settled, you don't care about big-city amenities and you don't mind snow.

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

.

Dang! I soo wanted to give you rep for saying that! We may not be like any place else, but we are "home" right?

lol...well thanks for the gesture anyways! It's true! I am not rich, I actually ran into some serious financial troubles a few years ago and had to downsize my family's livestyle; ironically enough when I lived in Raleigh, NC where the streets are paved with gold!

btw i've had the same message come up when trying to rate your posts positiviely.