U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-26-2014, 05:58 PM
 
56,281 posts, read 80,465,056 times
Reputation: 12422

Advertisements

To be fair to Buffalo, it actually is the second most affordable of the Upstate NY metros(Utica-Rome is slightly lower) and is the most urban. So, I wouldn't rule it out. Especially with its proximity to an International city like Toronto.

I dare say that I wouldn't count out Syracuse due to being the safest city and metro out of the bigger CNY/WNY metros. It is in a region of 1.2 million people including the Utica-Rome and Ithaca metros. So, in that regard, it is comparable to the Buffalo and Rochester areas/regions. It also has the highest average annual income out the three areas according to this: Here are the highest-paying markets for employees in all jobs - The Business Journals

With this said, it will come down to what you can find in terms of employment.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-26-2014 at 06:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-26-2014, 06:35 PM
 
Location: NJ = liberalism is a mental disorder!
6,456 posts, read 4,370,325 times
Reputation: 3934
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
Thanks for the understanding of where I'm coming from. I can relate to everything you are saying. I think the thing you don't like about Southwestern NJ (Philly burbs) will absolutely drive you insane if you lived in the South. I recommend the South to a lot of people, especially Raleigh as I know and enjoy it well but I would never make this rec to you.

I was thinking South Carolina but the salaries if there's any jobs sucks to the COL there.

Plus the Palmetto Bugs and many more other bugs in general (if there's much truth to that) would make me uncomfortable.

Bergen County has an extreme sense of place, and as you get to Philly and points South, this somehow gets lost. Its like more of a collection of strip malls and no real history that is still present (there was history, but its been eradicated for another Chick-Fil-A). North Jersey, due to the zoning and (this is very much my opinion) the intelligence of the residents, hold on very strong to sense of place, even to the detriment (old stuff that never gets fixed).

OH man is that the absolute truth as there's no identity with this area in general and you have many people that have "no word". Those people rather me sugar coat or to lie to them than to tell it as it is.


I know Ridgefield well, and I think you can do better! Rochester could be a good place for you. There is a sense of place there, for sure. Syracuse, Elmira, Horseheads, Binghamton, etc all too small. Rochester is actually a pretty nice city. The people there are similar to NYers, and not like Philly people too much. They're real. Its got a little Midwest flavor too, which I think enhances this. Albany too could work. Roch has a better cost of living though.

Now if I can "digest" the huge snowfalls they get in Rochester verses what I'm used to.
With Albany, I don't from what I've read in these forums too many great things. Saratoga Springs sounds nice on the surface but don't know much about it.


Boston, despite the arguments by ckh to the contrary, is just too expensive. Way more than central NJ IF YOU WANT TO LIVE WELL. Good luck.
Well I would never be able to live in Boston proper or too close to there, I'm stuck to share rent in that metro area though it has things to offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
To be fair to Buffalo, it actually is the second most affordable of the Upstate NY metros(Utica-Rome is slightly lower) and is the most urban. So, I wouldn't rule it out. Especially with its proximity to an International city like Toronto.
Buffalo like Rochester - the snowfall and I know I asked about CNY and WNY but some areas within have "drastic" different snow accumulations. I know that there's not much winning as things these days are tough as the economy is shaky no matter how the media with their rose colored glasses paints it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Deep in the Woods
2,549 posts, read 2,663,465 times
Reputation: 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol-its-good4U View Post
Well I would never be able to live in Boston proper or too close to there, I'm stuck to share rent in that metro area though it has things to offer.



Buffalo like Rochester - the snowfall and I know I asked about CNY and WNY but some areas within have "drastic" different snow accumulations. I know that there's not much winning as things these days are tough as the economy is shaky no matter how the media with their rose colored glasses paints it.
SC is pretty sprawled. Again, I'd recommend it for some people but not for what you described. For example, I went to Las Vegas recently, and it was the most sprawled city I've ever seen. Made Raleigh seem like NYC. Dare I say even worse than Atlanta. To me, with the sprawl comes the loss of character that you seem to be missing from Bergen County, a sense of place / history.

Check out the oldest home in NJ, located surprisingly in Gibbstown, if you enjoy history: C. A. Nothnagle Log House - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Albany, I agree, is rough. I'm not sure if I'd live there, but I am a country person so its not for me. But the suburbs are nice, and its well located to NYC. I think Rochester is quite a bit nicer than Albany, though Albany is better situated to the urban northeast and the ocean. Since suburbs aren't your thing, Albany might not work for you. Saratoga nice but very small.

Again, I don't think Syracuse is for you, some disagree, but keep in mind that what is being called the metro is an area stretching from Ithaca to Utica. This is a wide area with a lot of rural towns in between and not at all urban. Syracuse is also a town that just lacks the urbanity that areas like Fort Lee have. Roc and Buffalo are better, IMO, as they are one concentrated city. If you don't mind grittiness, Buffalo could be the spot. Its pretty urban and as close as a city Upstate will come to NYC (though not even close): http://goo.gl/maps/3dGoA

I know what you mean about "no word". NYers are abrasive but they'll keep their word more. You know where you stand. Philly people IMO tend to be more dramatic and less reliable. Philly is a transitional Southern area. Its not South, but on the edge of it. So, you get some of that Southerness there. Many will disagree, but Baltimore is Southern and you'd be hard pressed to tell the two cities apart- accent, topography, attitude, all similar. Its fascinating how different Philly is from NYC.

Snowfall can be a dealbreaker for people. I guess you'll have to decide. If you are single, try it for a few years and see if you can handle it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 03:09 AM
 
56,281 posts, read 80,465,056 times
Reputation: 12422
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
SC is pretty sprawled. Again, I'd recommend it for some people but not for what you described. For example, I went to Las Vegas recently, and it was the most sprawled city I've ever seen. Made Raleigh seem like NYC. Dare I say even worse than Atlanta. To me, with the sprawl comes the loss of character that you seem to be missing from Bergen County, a sense of place / history.

Check out the oldest home in NJ, located surprisingly in Gibbstown, if you enjoy history: C. A. Nothnagle Log House - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Albany, I agree, is rough. I'm not sure if I'd live there, but I am a country person so its not for me. But the suburbs are nice, and its well located to NYC. I think Rochester is quite a bit nicer than Albany, though Albany is better situated to the urban northeast and the ocean. Since suburbs aren't your thing, Albany might not work for you. Saratoga nice but very small.

Again, I don't think Syracuse is for you, some disagree, but keep in mind that what is being called the metro is an area stretching from Ithaca to Utica. This is a wide area with a lot of rural towns in between and not at all urban. Syracuse is also a town that just lacks the urbanity that areas like Fort Lee have. Roc and Buffalo are better, IMO, as they are one concentrated city. If you don't mind grittiness, Buffalo could be the spot. Its pretty urban and as close as a city Upstate will come to NYC (though not even close): http://goo.gl/maps/3dGoA

I know what you mean about "no word". NYers are abrasive but they'll keep their word more. You know where you stand. Philly people IMO tend to be more dramatic and less reliable. Philly is a transitional Southern area. Its not South, but on the edge of it. So, you get some of that Southerness there. Many will disagree, but Baltimore is Southern and you'd be hard pressed to tell the two cities apart- accent, topography, attitude, all similar. Its fascinating how different Philly is from NYC.

Snowfall can be a dealbreaker for people. I guess you'll have to decide. If you are single, try it for a few years and see if you can handle it!
Region was mentioned, just to be clear.

I'm not sure if Syracuse lacks urbanity and you could probably say that its core is a little more vibrant with areas like Armory Square, Hanover Square, festivals/events at Clinton Square and apartment housing with some companies and businesses in Franklin Square when looking at things in relative terms. In this post, here are pictures I took, which includes areas of the city: http://www.city-data.com/forum/35087815-post62.html Those pictures include shots of Hanover and Clinton Squares. This isn't to say that it is better than the other 2 cities, but there is an urbanity within Syracuse as well.

As for snowfall, at least in the Syracuse area, they are generally good about clearing snow in a timely manner and life goes on. This is due to having the equipment to do so. So, while it does come down, the area(s) are prepared for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 06:11 AM
 
Location: NJ = liberalism is a mental disorder!
6,456 posts, read 4,370,325 times
Reputation: 3934
I didn't sleep too well overnight so I took the time to think.

I guess then it's more or less that I probably need to expand my horizons a bit.

It's going to be tough to find what I had in Bergen County, NJ elsewhere without needing to earn a nice salary to afford it. Sure if I had my way I'd move to Southern California as the weather would be more to my liking but I know it's quite expensive there.

Still I may visit Buffalo and Rochester (I'm kinda iffy on this this morning - maybe a few cups of coffee may help clear that lol) to see, but the northern Massachusetts shore areas is still a shot but really looking to expand on the possibilities of more areas even if it's further away.

I'm surely not staying here in Southwestern NJ because me at 52 years and about 9 months old not going to waste whatever life I have left in this area, been here since the end of June 2012 and that's already too much punishment for me. The only downside is that I'll leave my immediate family (which I had to move down here because they were financially bleeding in Ridgefield, NJ) and my Mom who's 75 years old but have another brother here that can pick up any potential "bad pieces" if that scenario were to happen - thankfully it's all currently fine on that front.

The snow to a point is okay, but the annual snowfall where I asked (my fault) is perhaps too excessive for me to handle, heck the snowfall here in SW NJ last year bothered me to no end and I'm finding the older I get the less I tolerate it. I also found out about a "two-faced" neighbor here because of the snow last winter.

Now as to where to go is the question. Right now I'm almost back to square one.

Last edited by atgss; 08-27-2014 at 06:21 AM.. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 06:47 AM
 
56,281 posts, read 80,465,056 times
Reputation: 12422
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol-its-good4U View Post
I didn't sleep too well overnight so I took the time to think.

I guess then it's more or less that I probably need to expand my horizons a bit.

It's going to be tough to find what I had in Bergen County, NJ elsewhere without needing to earn a nice salary to afford it. Sure if I had my way I'd move to Southern California as the weather would be more to my liking but I know it's quite expensive there.

Still I may visit Buffalo and Rochester (I'm kinda iffy on this this morning - maybe a few cups of coffee may help clear that lol) to see, but the northern Massachusetts shore areas is still a shot but really looking to expand on the possibilities of more areas even if it's further away.

I'm surely not staying here in Southwestern NJ because me at 52 years and about 9 months old not going to waste whatever life I have left in this area, been here since the end of June 2012 and that's already too much punishment for me. The only downside is that I'll leave my immediate family (which I had to move down here because they were financially bleeding in Ridgefield, NJ) and my Mom who's 75 years old but have another brother here that can pick up any potential "bad pieces" if that scenario were to happen - thankfully it's all currently fine on that front.

The snow to a point is okay, but the annual snowfall where I asked (my fault) is perhaps too excessive for me to handle, heck the snowfall here in SW NJ last year bothered me to no end and I'm finding the older I get the less I tolerate it. I also found out about a "two-faced" neighbor here because of the snow last winter.

Now as to where to go is the question. Right now I'm almost back to square one.
What you could do is get your criteria together and present it to the General US forum. There would be plenty of people there to help you out and offer some input you may not have thought of before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 07:35 AM
 
Location: NJ = liberalism is a mental disorder!
6,456 posts, read 4,370,325 times
Reputation: 3934
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
What you could do is get your criteria together and present it to the General US forum. There would be plenty of people there to help you out and offer some input you may not have thought of before.
Thanks, yeah I thought of that.

It "sucks" to be in this scenario I tell ya.

I thank you for your trying as I DO appreciate all your efforts in response.

I've read so many of your posts btw.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Deep in the Woods
2,549 posts, read 2,663,465 times
Reputation: 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol-its-good4U View Post
I didn't sleep too well overnight so I took the time to think.

I guess then it's more or less that I probably need to expand my horizons a bit.

It's going to be tough to find what I had in Bergen County, NJ elsewhere without needing to earn a nice salary to afford it. Sure if I had my way I'd move to Southern California as the weather would be more to my liking but I know it's quite expensive there.

Still I may visit Buffalo and Rochester (I'm kinda iffy on this this morning - maybe a few cups of coffee may help clear that lol) to see, but the northern Massachusetts shore areas is still a shot but really looking to expand on the possibilities of more areas even if it's further away.

I'm surely not staying here in Southwestern NJ because me at 52 years and about 9 months old not going to waste whatever life I have left in this area, been here since the end of June 2012 and that's already too much punishment for me. The only downside is that I'll leave my immediate family (which I had to move down here because they were financially bleeding in Ridgefield, NJ) and my Mom who's 75 years old but have another brother here that can pick up any potential "bad pieces" if that scenario were to happen - thankfully it's all currently fine on that front.

The snow to a point is okay, but the annual snowfall where I asked (my fault) is perhaps too excessive for me to handle, heck the snowfall here in SW NJ last year bothered me to no end and I'm finding the older I get the less I tolerate it. I also found out about a "two-faced" neighbor here because of the snow last winter.

Now as to where to go is the question. Right now I'm almost back to square one.
I'm a complete demographics geek and map nerd, so maybe I can help since I've lived where you live.

Syracuse city looks and feels a little like Paterson, with nothing but rural areas surrounding it. Its more college town though and I'd live there over Paterson personally. Crime is fairly high there, in the city but safe in the suburbs (like its safe in Woodland Park or Wayne). Saratoga Springs is like Ridgewood, in Bergen County. Probably less Asian and more White, and more touristy, less commuter town (though people do commute from there to Albany). The closest to Fort Lee that I can conjure up is White Plains, maybe Yonkers but again, its just as expensive.

My experience in Syracuse coming from someone from NJ is that its not very urban, but has a great mix of different architectures which makes it unique, and there's some improvement too in certain areas. Its not cookie cutter, which I know you like. Snow, no matter how you slice it, is 4x NJ rates. You are used to 30", they get 120". Whether its cleaned up or not, I've been up in the winter and your scraping your car / driveway almost daily. You can't sugar-coat this fact, it is what it is. Winter there is also even less sunny than here. Summer and fall are roughly equal, sunshine wise, but its a bit less hot there.

Town of Clay / Cicero / Salina will remind you of Cherry Hill. No downtowns, kinda sprawly, but safe and more tree covered than Camden County. Liverpool is a little like Collingswood, with a smaller downtown and slightly more residential.

In Rochester, Pittsford is similar to Ramsey or Mahwah NJ. Wealthy, nice, but much cheaper than Ramsey or Mahwah. Southeast Rochester going into Brighton feels like a nicer neighborhood near Morristown or Paramus.

I can't truly speak for Buffalo, as I don't have enough experience actually being there. I think its important to actually visit a place before making judgements. There's only so much that can be gained from stats. Akron, OH has decent stats but I've been there and its a dump and I'd never want to actually live there. It sounds like your situation is somewhat dire and a bit hopeless so I hope I can steer you right with these comparisons.

Also, considering that you want to be near family, have you considered Bethlehem PA or Easton PA? Bethlehem has a great downtown and nice residential areas surrounding it. Its fairly cheap with tons of festivals and less snow/more sun than NY. Emmaus is a nice town there too, as is Hellertown. Easton is becoming artsy / gritty / hipster in a way, reminds me of a small Brooklyn. Bethlehem also has a nice casino constructed from the old Bethlehem steel factory.

Bethlehem: http://goo.gl/maps/PvxqI
Easton: http://goo.gl/maps/G9IIN
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2014, 07:05 PM
 
1,206 posts, read 905,053 times
Reputation: 2041
If you'd like to see some street views of Rochester here are some:

Brighton:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1204...Rg!2e0!6m1!1e1

Pitsford:
This is Schoen Place which is the tourist area along the canal:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0917...5A!2e0!6m1!1e1

Main St. Downtown Rochester:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1579...9Q!2e0!6m1!1e1

South Wedge Rochester:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1399...8w!2e0!6m1!1e1

East End Rochester:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1558...YA!2e0!6m1!1e1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 01:34 AM
 
56,281 posts, read 80,465,056 times
Reputation: 12422
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
I'm a complete demographics geek and map nerd, so maybe I can help since I've lived where you live.

Syracuse city looks and feels a little like Paterson, with nothing but rural areas surrounding it. Its more college town though and I'd live there over Paterson personally. Crime is fairly high there, in the city but safe in the suburbs (like its safe in Woodland Park or Wayne). Saratoga Springs is like Ridgewood, in Bergen County. Probably less Asian and more White, and more touristy, less commuter town (though people do commute from there to Albany). The closest to Fort Lee that I can conjure up is White Plains, maybe Yonkers but again, its just as expensive.

My experience in Syracuse coming from someone from NJ is that its not very urban, but has a great mix of different architectures which makes it unique, and there's some improvement too in certain areas. Its not cookie cutter, which I know you like. Snow, no matter how you slice it, is 4x NJ rates. You are used to 30", they get 120". Whether its cleaned up or not, I've been up in the winter and your scraping your car / driveway almost daily. You can't sugar-coat this fact, it is what it is. Winter there is also even less sunny than here. Summer and fall are roughly equal, sunshine wise, but its a bit less hot there.

Town of Clay / Cicero / Salina will remind you of Cherry Hill. No downtowns, kinda sprawly, but safe and more tree covered than Camden County. Liverpool is a little like Collingswood, with a smaller downtown and slightly more residential.

In Rochester, Pittsford is similar to Ramsey or Mahwah NJ. Wealthy, nice, but much cheaper than Ramsey or Mahwah. Southeast Rochester going into Brighton feels like a nicer neighborhood near Morristown or Paramus.

I can't truly speak for Buffalo, as I don't have enough experience actually being there. I think its important to actually visit a place before making judgements. There's only so much that can be gained from stats. Akron, OH has decent stats but I've been there and its a dump and I'd never want to actually live there. It sounds like your situation is somewhat dire and a bit hopeless so I hope I can steer you right with these comparisons.

Also, considering that you want to be near family, have you considered Bethlehem PA or Easton PA? Bethlehem has a great downtown and nice residential areas surrounding it. Its fairly cheap with tons of festivals and less snow/more sun than NY. Emmaus is a nice town there too, as is Hellertown. Easton is becoming artsy / gritty / hipster in a way, reminds me of a small Brooklyn. Bethlehem also has a nice casino constructed from the old Bethlehem steel factory.

Bethlehem: http://goo.gl/maps/PvxqI
Easton: http://goo.gl/maps/G9IIN
While crime can vary by neighborhood, Syracuse has a lower crime rate than Paterson actually by a good margin and the area isn't rural once you leave it except for going south due to the Onondaga Nation just south of Nedrow. It is the safest city and metro between the 3 bigger WNY/CNY cities/areas in terms of crime rate/rankings. Again, an area like Franklin Square, which has apartments with more to come, could be a good fit due to having companies, shops and restaurants/cafes within, as well as near the neighborhood.

Syracuse's snowfall varies, but is still high, as the 120 inches is the average for the metro, which includes Oswego County and its very high snowfall totals. I believe the city itself averages around 90-100 inches, but again, snow removal preparedness is better than the vast majority of areas that get snow.

With Buffalo, I'd definitely look into the Elmwood Village area, as well as North Buffalo along Hertel and into Kenmore. All have good density, with plenty of shops, restaurants, etc.

Brighton just outside of Rochester also has a relatively high Asian percentage of about 13% due to its proximity to Rochester Institute of Technology, University of Rochester and 2 hospitals(Strong Memorial and Highland).

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-28-2014 at 02:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top