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Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Lately I've been thinking about all the different ways that Yates county is aligned with the southern tier of upstate NY. Doing some research I was a bit shocked at how many organizations actually do include Yates county in their definition of the southern tier.
Geographically it's a strange notion as there are three counties between it and Pennsylvania; that border being the basis of the whole region to begin with. Interestingly it does extend south of Steuben's northern border in the south-east.
Topographically and culturally the southern and western parts of Yates county do indeed look and feel a lot like neighboring Schuyler and Steuben counties (both southern tier themselves). However, once you get far enough north heading towards Penn Yan the county begins to look and feel a lot more like the typical central NY. Fairly flat terrain, a hurried culture, etc.
Yates appears to be part of several southern tier identities. The public library system, the Scottish heritage festivals, and the southern tier food pantry. On the flip side it is not often called a southern tier county in passing conversation nor is it a registered Appalachian county.
So my question is, what do you think? Do you feel as though Yates is wholly, partially or not at all part of the southern tier?
If you're curious, my personal opinion is that the southeastern stretch including the village of Dundee is spiritually southern tier in every way, though the hill country and "extended Pennsylvanian feel" does vanish rapidly north of that.
I think it is also worth pointing out that Yates county seems to be the only county north of the southern tier that is ever considered a part of it. Seneca county and Livingston county, for example, never are (in my experience). Even though in a fascinating turn of borders the extreme south of Livingston county is nestled between Allegany and Steuben.
Cortland and Chenango counties often get lumped in with Southern Tier. Actually I've seen Delaware and Otsego sometimes brought in as well. Southern Tier East Regional Planning Development Board even includes Schoharie County. Guilty by area code, perhaps.
It sort of makes sense as the non-Thruway non-Erie Canal corridor sharing the common Devonian geology. The back of the Allegheny plateau gets short shrift as a geological region, despite containing a more complete section of Devonian rocks than Devon.
Splitting regions by county brings up a number of anomalies. Cayuga County borders Lake Ontario, but someplace like the Town of Sempronius (barring its tiny sliver bordering Skaneateles Lake, with a Homer postal address and telephone exchange) might as well be in Allegany County.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,539,156 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh
Cortland and Chenango counties often get lumped in with Southern Tier. Actually I've seen Delaware and Otsego sometimes brought in as well. Southern Tier East Regional Planning Development Board even includes Schoharie County. Guilty by area code, perhaps.
It sort of makes sense as the non-Thruway non-Erie Canal corridor sharing the common Devonian geology. The back of the Allegheny plateau gets short shrift as a geological region, despite containing a more complete section of Devonian rocks than Devon.
Splitting regions by county brings up a number of anomalies. Cayuga County borders Lake Ontario, but someplace like the Town of Sempronius (barring its tiny sliver bordering Skaneateles Lake, with a Homer postal address and telephone exchange) might as well be in Allegany County.
Interesting!
I grew up considering Cortland and Chenango southern tier, or at the very least the southern halves of those counties. I was more surprised when I found people who didn't think that. haha
The Catskill counties make sense to me as well, at least on the western side.
As a side note, some family of mine live in northeastern Tompkins county and they don't tend to consider themselves part of the southern tier; moreso Central NY. It does feel like a different place admittedly. However, friends of mine in Newfield (also in Tompkins) swear to southern tier.
The only person (literally, one guy) I ever met who said Schuyler was not southern tier was from Binghamton. He had this idea of the whole region being exclusively Tioga, Broome and Delaware. Further more he considered Chemung west part of western NY. Guh? Is my typical reply.
Of course this guy also swore up and down that Pennsylvania was part of the south. Not a credible fellow.
Actually it isn't, It's white. The light green are Schuyler, Tompkins, Cortland, Chenango, Otsego and Schoharie.
Schuyler has perhaps the strongest twin tiers identity of all the peripheral (light green) counties. Which ironically is the one I think you may be calling twin tiers light.
Yates is north of Schuyler and Steuben, between Canandaigua and Seneca lakes.
Most likely places more economically tied to places along the Erie RR/NY 17/I-86 corridor, say Elmira or Binghamton, as the next-bigger town would identify more as "Southern Tier" without a literal PA border. That would be a little more likely to draw in Schuyler and Chenango, than Cortland or Tompkins counties. Cortland County has never made it into the Syracuse MSA or CSA though, it's now in a CSA with Ithaca. Denizens of the "Ithaca bubble" are more likely to see themselves as a lost sixth borough of New York City than some sort of tributary community to Elmira (which it is by 3-digit ZIP), Syracuse (by DMA), or Rochester (Home - Diocese of Rochester).
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,539,156 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh
Most likely places more economically tied to places along the Erie RR/NY 17/I-86 corridor, say Elmira or Binghamton, as the next-bigger town would identify more as "Southern Tier" without a literal PA border. That would be a little more likely to draw in Schuyler and Chenango, than Cortland or Tompkins counties. Cortland County has never made it into the Syracuse MSA or CSA though, it's now in a CSA with Ithaca. Denizens of the "Ithaca bubble" are more likely to see themselves as a lost sixth borough of New York City than some sort of tributary community to Elmira (which it is by 3-digit ZIP), Syracuse (by DMA), or Rochester (Home - Diocese of Rochester).
Planet Ithaca I like to call it.
You've a good point. Though places south of of those cities in those counties do seem to have a lot more in common with Schuyler, Tioga and Broome than Ithaca and Cortland north, themselves.
For example, a good portion of Tompkins along the southern parts of route 13 are unmistakably more like its twin tiers neighbors than say, Lansing or Groton are. I'd say drawing a line from Tioga and Broome's northern border westward would be a decent indicator of where Tompkins itself changes identities.
Of course one could also argue that areas east of Ithaca and south of Cortland are more twin tiers-ish as well.
I've gone and made myself think even more deeply about this. haha
You've a good point. Though places south of of those cities in those counties do seem to have a lot more in common with Schuyler, Tioga and Broome than Ithaca and Cortland north, themselves.
For example, a good portion of Tompkins along the southern parts of route 13 are unmistakably more like its twin tiers neighbors than say, Lansing or Groton are. I'd say drawing a line from Tioga and Broome's northern border westward would be a decent indicator of where Tompkins itself changes identities.
Of course one could also argue that areas east of Ithaca and south of Cortland are more twin tiers-ish as well.
I've gone and made myself think even more deeply about this. haha
Yep this is drilling fairly far in. I'd wiggle the border around the south line of the Ithaca City School District that takes in most of Caroline and Danby though, they're outer moons of the planet nowadays.
Getting back to the thread topic, this puts Yates County in the Rochester orbit more than Southern Tier.
I was thinking the same thing. In fact Yates county was added to the Rochester Metro area last year. I think that kinda shows a much stronger gravitational pull to the north, not the south.
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