What is Upstate??? (New York, Buffalo, Rochester: commute to, trees, metro)

[featherz]

I had someone tell me in another thread that where I live (Saratoga County, near Saratoga Springs) was not really upstate.. Then what the heck is it?! =)

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by Jeromeville

Yeah, I forgot Orange, sorry.

And yes, the Adirondacks sort of don't count for the purposes of my definition, although clearly they're upstate. That's because the Adirondacks were originally settled, in good measure, by the super-rich from NYC back in the 19th century.

Another definition of "Upstate" could be "anywhere in New York where you don't hear very many downstate accents in everyday conversation."

Viralmd, no offense meant, I was imprecise in my statement: I meant "only someone from NYC WOULD think that" - not that ALL people from NYC think that.



But I can't help feeling that people from Upstate have a better working knowledge of NYC - geography, issues, history - than people from NYC have a working knowledge of Upstate's geography, issues, and history. People from NYC pride themselves on being worldly wise, yet they know so very little about their own state. Strange.

VERY TRUE! I could tell you where all 5 boroughs are, their general population/demographics...even identify a particular borough-based accent. But i seriously doubt most people in NYC would even be able to find Buffalo, Rochester, or Syracuse on a map or know what any of their suburbs are.

I also agree on the absense of any sort of "new yawk" or {"new yawk") accent. I can hear that, at least mildly...all the way up to Kingston so, as crazy as I'm sure this sounds to people in LI or NYC....I don't consider Kingston to be upstate either.


Featherz.....i would consider saratoga springs upstate; I can't see how it wouldn't be considered upstate

[Pam& Bill]

Originally Posted by Pidgett

Hi i'minformed!

I must respectfully disagree with your above statement. You are confusing demographics/geography with the sociopolitical designation "upstate." Just because demographically many NYC metro peole have moved to P'keepsie and Kingston and now call this area home, and just because there are many NYC area people living in this area only because they have been priced out of the downstate area vis a vis housing costs and are still part of the rat race mentality of that area, it doesn't mean this area is "downstate." This is purely from a technical, accurate standpoint as defined by the govt of the state of New York. Also, if you are hearing the NY accent from residents of P-town/Kingston, it is because they are transplants and are not native to this area, aka the mid-Hudson Valley. In fact, a native of this area would be quite upset at being defined as part of the NYC Metro/Downstate area as they do not have the classic New Yaaawwwk accent, mindset. etc etc. BTW, in reference to the rooting for NYC teams, there are many folks in other parts of upstate other than 'Kips/Kingston who root for the Mets and Yanks, etc. Because of a lack of a true state-identified team, the NYC teams become the default/de facto NY teams we root for. Except, of course, if you root for the Patriots and the Sox, as do many upstaters who choose to eschew the Big Apple!

Because of the huge confusion of New York--meaning the city--and New York--meaning the state, there has to be something that unequivocally deifnes them. It has been historically recognized for sociopolitical purposes that downstate equals NYC's five boroughs, Long Island's two counties, and the suburbs of Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties. Everything else is upstate.

Sorry for being picky and persnickety--which, my better half, Mrs. Pidgett says are my middle names , but I felt it necessary to clear the record as the title of this thread, "What is Upstate?," begged the correct answer.

I stopped reading at page 5 so I'm going to add my 2 cents here.
I was born and raised in the Hudson Valley, I always have defined where I was from as "upstate". I now live in the South and I still specify I am from upstate NY. There are so many regions to NY state and all of them are as different and diverse as they can be.
Anything south of White Plains is the "city" meaning Manhatten and Long Island.
But to the poster who referred to Kingston and Poughkeepsie as seeming to be part of the city because of the accents, well that is testament to the fact that upstate was over run with transplants from the city after 9/11.
Pam

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

Most people from outside of the Northeast don't realize this..... but people in most of New York state don't talk with that typical "noo yoak" accent. Most people upstate have the great lakes/upper midwest accent.... like people in Chicago and Michigan.....

What accent? I don't have an accent! Just because I live north of Albany doesn't mean I have an accent! LOL

I have a friend in Cali who SWEARS I sound just like someone from NYC. Apparently, she's never spoken to someone from NYC. Us northerners sound NOTHING like NYC folk.

And why is just about the entire state considered upstate? Freaking NYC yet again. Anyone ever going to let them in on the rest of the world and state? Shocking news......they don't rule the world.....now if only Jersey would sue for the rest of Ellis Island, State Island, Long Island and any other island related to NYC, we upstaters would no longer be downgraded to second rate citizens. Wonder if NYC could support iteself without us....

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by livecontent

When is New York going to consider itself a unified state and that the economics of the the whole are important?? Maybe the suggestion of splitting the state and making NYC metro a separate state and allow the rest of the state to become independent or to join a state, like Ohio, Pennsylvania or Vermont which would be more responsive to the needs of these ignored people.

As someone from the Albany area, I am ALLLLLLLLL for NYC splitting. They could become a District like DC.

We still get screwed when it comes to politics thus economics. Nothing will change that until someone from outside hte city is elected and actually able to do something. I may be dead before that happens. God forbid the NYCers don't have their peeps running the state.

And they've done such a fine job so far.......freaking 18% tax on soft drinks and beverages. What kind of ghetto state is this becoming? No wonder businesses and residents are flewing....running screaming away....hey I've still got a nickel in pocket....does NY want that too?

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

the real question is why??? Why are you so against it being "called" upstate? Its just a term and doesnt really mean much. I think the issues of concern are the economics, environmental and social aspects that make your region vibrant or not.

its just a term

Because it's often said as if we are second class citizens or a third world country. Sorry, we're not and it's insulting. There's a definite attitude and arrogance about the way it's said. You have to live to understand it.

And how the hell is Buffalo upstate??? Seriously! It's 5-6 hours west and south of Albany. It's NOT upstate! It's WEST! NYC needs to learn to rea da map and get some sense of direction.....oh wait it doesn't pertain to them so why care? They're just pee-ons up yonder. Nothing but farming hicks. Cause there's sooooo much farming in Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester. Let me find my hay barrel and straw to pick my teeth with. Yeehaw!

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

ugh...that's another misconception....everything north of the NYC suburbs is not "country". Upstate has it's own cities with their own suburbs as well! Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and to a lesser degree, Albany; are all urban areas with surrounding suburban towns. They also have the bulk of the upstate population It isn't all corn fields and dairy farms north of the NYC burbs, and we aren't all hick farmers and hunters who live in isolation from society!

HERE HERE!! Well said!

FYI...

Buffalo #2 most populated city in NY
Rochester #3

And there's more than 5 peopple who don't have cows there!

[Gaffer]

Anyone who considers farmers hicks has no idea of farming and farmers.
Downstaters like to draw the upstate line south so they can call them selves upstaters because it is chic to be and simply put, they are jealous.
In any case downstaters we are in the process of splitting off to become the 51st state and you guys can fend for yourselves, pay your own welfare bills without our help etc. We'll consider continuing to house your criminals, but be ready to pay the cost $20,000 - $25,000 per year per inmate.
Have a great day!

[Gaffer]

Another thought: Mid-state correctional facility is a few miles west of Utica, NY. So where are the lines drawn for mid-state and is it between upstate and downstate?

[Jeremy123]

People from NYC and long island define upstate as anything north of Yonkers. People upstate define down state as South of Poughkeepsie. By People upstare, I mean me.