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No, I’m talking about how to just lower taxes for everyone. I’m only asking due to past pushback about school consolidation or restructuring, which helps keep property taxes lower in some other states.
I disagree with your premise that school consolidation is what keeps property taxes lower in other states. There is no data to support that. Studies on the topic indicate that school district consolidation only has the _potential_ to lower costs (not necessarily taxes) in districts of less than 1500 students. People on Long Island tend to bring up consolidation often, but there are less than a handful of districts that would fit the under 1500 number.
It is one of those ideas that sound good. The numbers just don't support it.
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To be fair, pretty much any highly populated state in the US has high property taxes(inc. TX).
Vermont is higher than NY. Delaware and Maryland are lower. California is much lower. I don't think population is a factor. It has more to do with how the state decides to fund their coffers. Some go light on property tax and make it up somewhere else.
New York, on the other hand, hits you every way they can.
Add in mortgage tax, estate tax, school tax, gasoline tax, sales tax, ad nausem and New York state is the highest taxed state in the nation (tied with DC).
School tax is a problem, but it is just one part of a systemic over-taxation policy.
Oh... how to lower taxes for everyone? Spend less. Stop giving away everything to public sector unions to buy their votes. Stop cronyism and wasteful government contracts/programs. Find a way to end the corruption in Albany - it makes Daley's Chicago Machine look like a choir boys.
I disagree with your premise that school consolidation is what keeps property taxes lower in other states. There is no data to support that. Studies on the topic indicate that school district consolidation only has the _potential_ to lower costs (not necessarily taxes) in districts of less than 1500 students. People on Long Island tend to bring up consolidation often, but there are less than a handful of districts that would fit the under 1500 number.
It is one of those ideas that sound good. The numbers just don't support it.
Vermont is higher than NY. Delaware and Maryland are lower. California is much lower. I don't think population is a factor. It has more to do with how the state decides to fund their coffers. Some go light on property tax and make it up somewhere else.
New York, on the other hand, hits you every way they can.
Add in mortgage tax, estate tax, school tax, gasoline tax, sales tax, ad nausem and New York state is the highest taxed state in the nation (tied with DC).
School tax is a problem, but it is just one part of a systemic over-taxation policy.
Oh... how to lower taxes for everyone? Spend less. Stop giving away everything to public sector unions to buy their votes. Stop cronyism and wasteful government contracts/programs. Find a way to end the corruption in Albany - it makes Daley's Chicago Machine look like a choir boys.
I mention school tax, because that is the biggest portion of the property tax and unions are involved in public school systems here as well. So, you could include school unions as well.
Some other states just aren’t paying the same in school taxes and there are other reasons for that, but it is something to at least look at to see why there are differences. We’ve had other posters illustrate the reason for the difference such as operating within a strict budget, but the example I’m referring to(Virginia) has county school districts too.
Some of the rankings vary in terms of overall tax burden(some I believe have had NJ higher than NY) depending on the year, but my point is that highly populated states largely have high property taxes, even if states with lower populations may be higher.
Yes, I know that states just hit their residents in different ways. With NY, some of this depends on where you live in the state as well.
I think the thing is that if you live in a state, you know more about what goes on in your government than others. So, people that live in other states may know more about “the dirt” that occurs in their state government than others do.
I mention school tax, because that is the biggest portion of the property tax and unions are involved in public school systems here as well. So, you could include school unions as well.
If you are getting into unions, you are getting into teacher salary/benefits. I specifically avoided that topic because it is a hot button. I'm not going to argue that teachers are underpaid, overpaid, or anything else. The fact is that teachers in NY average considerably higher pay than the low-tax states you allude to. Teachers greatly outnumber administrators. Teachers also have an amazing benefits package. The answers are clear when you look at the numbers.
Again, I'm not arguing for or against teachers. Just pointing out that teachers are where the bulk of cost.
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Some other states just aren’t paying the same in school taxes and there are other reasons for that, but it is something to at least look at to see why there are differences. We’ve had other posters illustrate the reason for the difference such as operating within a strict budget, but the example I’m referring to(Virginia) has county school districts too.
See above.
For the record, if anyone can show me definitive saving from a consolidation plan I will be the first on board. The only numbers I have seen point to the contrary. I would also be skeptical of any such plan (if one existed) because the people making up the plan have zero accountability. "Oops, we were wrong. That's okay, it's the taxpayer who pays for our mistake."
There have been consolidations. Where it makes sense, it should be done. I only oppose the pontification that a generic state- or county-wide system is some magic bullet.
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Some of the rankings vary in terms of overall tax burden(some I believe have had NJ higher than NY) depending on the year, but my point is that highly populated states largely have high property taxes, even if states with lower populations may be higher.
If you look at the link I provided, NY is far and away the highest overall tax burden.
I'm not sure what you mean about highly populated states with lower populations. Look at the list in the link provided - Vermont (low population and low density) is on the high end. California with high population and high density is on the low end. Again, I don't belive your generalization holds true.
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Yes, I know that states just hit their residents in different ways. With NY, some of this depends on where you live in the state as well.
There may be some lower taxed areas in NY, but I haven't found one. Income, estate, gas tax (all among the highest in the nation) are the same throughout the state. I have property downstate and in the Catskills. While downstate property/school is insane, the rural Catskills is no bargain compared to other states. I constantly grieve my upstate tax bill, but still pay considerably more that I would on an identical property in any sane state.
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I think the thing is that if you live in a state, you know more about what goes on in your government than others. So, people that live in other states may know more about “the dirt” that occurs in their state government than others do.
True, to a degree. Certain areas are nationally known for their corruption and mismanagement. Daley's Chicago, Tammany Hall, etc. Sadly, "Glorious Leader Comrade Cuomo" has joined that club.
I don't think anyone needs a website to know that NY is among the worst places in the country for retirement (from a tax standpoint). Income tax and estate tax (which is, fortunately, better than it was a few years ago) alone are reasons for a retiree to move. That's why Florida is so popular.
We’ve had other posters illustrate the reason for the difference such as operating within a strict budget, but the example I’m referring to(Virginia) has county school districts too.
Just to address that point...
Schools in NY also operate (generally) on a strict budget. They want to stay below that 2% cap. That has nothing to do with why the number is so high to begin with.
Do some research on school budgets. Get involved with the school board. I think you will be surprised at how things work.
The part of the "budget" your school board has control over (and what you get to vote on) is a tiny percentage of the total. There are contractual obligations and mandates that are already in there and cannot be changed. Last time I was involved in school board budgeting (not as a member) the board had a say in just under 2% of the budget.
A few years ago I received a notice from my district prior to a budget vote. They showed two numbers - the proposed budget and the "austerity" budget that would go into effect if the proposed wasn't passed. The austerity budget was _higher_. That makes about as much sense as any government bureaucracy.
^I get all of this and I don’t think it would be a matter of strictly consolidating, then that’s it. Of course there would have to be consideration for duplicate services or facilities, among other things.
The tax guide wasn’t so much for retirement, but it actually shows detailed information in regards to taxes by state, whether one is retiring or not.
For lower property taxes in NY State, I already mentioned the aspect of the Amish and Mennonites that migrated into the state due to more affordable land. That means to look into counties such as Yates, Lewis, Jefferson, St. Lawrence, Essex, Warren, Cortland, etc. All generally have lower property tax rates, but I think people overlook them. So, they are out there if you know where to look.
Again, my point was that high population states like IL, TX, NJ, OH, PA and MI are higher on the property tax list. Having VT, ME, NE, etc. high on the list doesn’t change that those other states are high on that list. Minus CA, FL, GA and NC on that list, 7 of the top 11 states are pretty high on that list. You’re mixing up my response in terms of tax burden, which can and does change year by year. For instance, here is another list: https://www.zippia.com/advice/states...st-tax-burden/ So, some of this comes down to criteria as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-13-2021 at 12:50 PM..
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