watertown area relocation (Syracuse, Clay, Cicero: for sale, apartments, rental)

[sstrang]

We are considering moving to the Watertown, Sackets Harbour or Syracuse area. I am a math tutor and Hockey skills coach. I also sail. What are property values like there and if I opened an ice rink, is there enough hockey in the area for it to succeed?

[bellafinzi]

Watertown, Sackets Harbour and Syracuse are all very different places.

Watertown is a military town. Fort Drum drives it's economy. The Watertown area has a population of about 50,000.

Sackets Harbour is a small summer resort village of about 2,000 on the shores of Lake Ontario.

Syracuse is a Metropolitan city with over 400,000 in it's urbanized area and 650,000 in the three county region. Syracuse itself only has about 140,000 people, but the suburbs have close to 300,000 people.

property values Property values are up in Watertown due to the shortage of housing. When Fort Drum expanded two years ago, new military families flooded into the Watertown area. Some had to live in the northern suburbs of Syracuse as Watertown lacked enough housing. Currently, the area near Fort Drum is having a building boom to accommodate the new military families.

Property values are way up in the Syracuse area compared to 5 years ago, but are still afordable. Only recently has home appreciation slowed down. The median price of a home in the Syracuse area is about $120,000.

ice rinks The Syracuse area has at least 5 or 6 public ice rinks. One is downtown in Clinton Square, others are in Cicero, Baldwinsville, Nedrow, the Fairgrounds and couple others in the city. Hockey is popular in the area. Syracuse Stars is a kids league that has teams for all age groups. The area probably doesn't need another ice rink.

Not sure what type of community you are looking for..but I hope this helps.

[Sgoldie]

I looked at apartments a couple of months ago in Watertown. They were very scarce, and very overpriced. It may be better now they're accomodating the expansion. The city is good sized with decent shopping. A little depressing though.

Sacketts is a very tiny little place. You probably couldn't make a living there.

There's sailing all over Lake Ontario so no matter where you locate you can get to your mooring/dock in short order. The yacht clubs are inexpensive and maintain Wed night races. I'm in Oswego, on the lake. It's a small city with a state university and not a bad place to raise kids. We also have more available docks than Sacketts.

Hockey is huge here. The rinks are municipally owned and parents volunteer to coach. You may well be able to put a school together for such purposes. If you could get certified with the state to teach math there may also be opportunities for that.

Otherwise, I'd say Syracuse is your best bet because of the diversity of opportunity.

[sstrang]

Thank you for your replies, both of you. I don't really have a preference as to exactly where we would move as long as I am close to where my boat is. Sackets Harbour sounds nice for the boating life. How are small, close to water, property values there?
Is there a minor hockey league in watertown. When my son was coming up through the ranks I seem to recall a team he played from there.
Is the Oswego area as nice as people have described?

[Sgoldie]

I'm a water person too. The apt I found in Sacketts was at the former military base. It's on the water. There was only one available and it was tiny, only enough room for a couch, two person table, and bed w no dresser in the bedroom, two rooms. Almost sailboat sized! And, it was very expensive. I could get the same thing here (Oswego) for a third the price and twice as big.

The entire waterfront in Oswego is lined with finished walkways, along the river both sides, and along the lake. That's quite a bit of territory, several miles worth. (Think Portalnd, Ore) It's pretty hilly (Think SF). There are three large Marinas along the downtown along the lake. (Think Monterrey, Ca) There's a marine museum and a sailing school including a large research vessel built by volunteers. Tall ships are regulars in season as they go back and forth between Canada (Kingston to Oswego to Toronto). We are also the first lock off the lake that takes international travelers from the Great Lakes along the intercoastal to the Carribean. We get some tour boats as well as some interesting intl yachts. The more majestic, 100 ft plus, come thru from Detroit.

It's a bit nippy in the winter with tons of snow (Think Siberia!), none yet this winter though, and you nearly have to be related to someone important to get a job of any sort. Taxes are higher than some states as most of it goes to the schools, which are good, not as high as in Syracuse though. The pace is frenetic in the summer - sailing, swimming, golf, day trips, festivals, outdoor concerts, etal and falls off to boring in the winter. Good if you're a reader. There is a college in town with a brand new $36M skating 'cathedral'. There's opera and theatre at the college and the schools/community provide lots of activities for kids.

Houses are cheap too. Most places are less than five minutes from the water. If you can afford to buy a house, no mortgage (say $55 for a 1900 neighborhood 3-4 BR or $150 for a nice 4BR 1970's) you can probably get by carefully with $15,000 a year, plus YC and mooring/dock costs. A go boat will take about three hours to get across the narrow part of the lake to Kingston, one of our favorite spots, where the West Point and Yale of Canada are located. It's about a day for you. Toronto would take you about a week. Keep in mind this lake can be more hazardous than bluewater and you can easily lose site of land. It's mostly open water few destinations unless you gunkhole around the perimiter. The short wave peaks are down right dangerous. Swells can be 6-8 feet and the lake can change very quickly sometimes with waterspouts.

If you can hack the winter, and overcome the income barrier, there's no place like it in the summer.

[sstrang]

Friends of mine have been in and thru Oswego. We used to live on our boat in Toronto while my son played and trained hockey in CA.
Numerous dfriends took the canal system to begin their journies south.
How long a drive is it to downtown Syracuse from Oswego?
Could I commute to work in Syracuse from there?
How many people? Is the income level there higher than Watertown, whos avg income is $28,000?
Is it an educated town, colleges, assoerted school options.
Thanks again fore your time. We will me making a trip there in Feb to scout it out. Our sons hockey career has taken him away from home, so we are early empy nesters and want to settle down.

[Sgoldie]

It takes about 40 minutes to drive to downtown Syracuse. Quite a few people make the commute. The only bad part of that scenario is when we get a white out, ie, blowing snowstorm. Then it could take you hours to get home.

The city has about 18,000 people and the college another couple thousand. It's a pleasant size and quick to get around town. A large river splits the eastside from the westside with two bridges across. The college is at the extreme west of the city and shopping centers are at the far east of it. Most municipal buildings are granite and quite gorgeous architecturally.

I'd say the income level is comparable to Watertown. The two highest paying careers around here are public school teacher ($55,000 avg) and nuclear engineer ($60,000?). There are some public employees, and hospital workers, an aluminum plant, and the rest mostly drive to Syracuse.

I can't say it's particularly an educated town as in an Annapolis or Toronto. It's still a decent mix though and should be acceptable to most anybody. Fundamentally, it was blue collar with a business class and a college component. Now that the several turn of the century factories have closed some have left and others have gotten city/county jobs or are relying on rental properties to students. The business class has shrunk quite a bit as downtowns were displaced by malls. The mix is Irish, French, Italian, German, Polish with a few Indian and Russians.

Public schools are very good and there is a christian school and a catholic school at the lower grade levels. The higest achieving students are accepted at good colleges but find the need to move away for career opportunities. There are many service clubs: Elks, Rotary, Veterans, and a tradition of volunteering. All school aged kids are given free music lessons in school. There is a jazz band, symphonic band, marching band. Hockey, lacrosse, football, track. The college provides cultural acitivites and there are others in town.

In the summer there's a farmer's market, weekday outdoor rock concerts, and an enormous multivenued festival the end of July. Wed night sailboat races are great to watch at sundown from a large waterfront park while listening to big band and classical concerts just above the marina. Golf is still $8 for 9 holes with several nice courses, and a matinee at the art deco theatre is still $4.50. You'll notice when you come that there are three highrises along the river which are all subsidized senior citizen housing. The other large bldg is the school districts. If you live in the city you can walk all over.

There's been a small rennaisance dowtown recently with a new bakery, chocolatier, wine shop, chinese buffet, and bookstore with plenty of room for more. Otherwise there are several bars both downtown for the kids and some still left in neighborhoods. Salmon (which are as big as a man) bring in lots of out of towners in the fall and to charter boats in the summer. -- I may be in Fla in Feb!

[sstrang]

It sounds like a nice place. We want to be close to the water for boating, close to a population that can support an academic coaching (tutoring) location the size of a Sylvan and where hockey is big. Sounds like the Oswego, Syracuse area has it all.
Hope you get to Fla., I'll continue with this thread so stay in touch.Thanks again for your time and well written responses.

[bellafinzi]

Maybe you are already aware of this, but the northern suburbs of Syracuse have the Erie Canal/Barge Canal going through many communities. The Erie Canal system is linked to Lake Ontario and Oneida Lake. The Erie canal makes it so you can travel by boat from the Atlantic Ocean near NYC to Lake Ontario or to Lake Erie.

There are many marina's in the Syracuse northern suburbs. There are marina's on Oneida Lake in Cicero, on Onondaga Lake in Salina, on the Seneca River in Lysander and Clay.

[gocargo]

In Sacketts Harbor, unfortunately you will find that housing near the water is some of the highest priced and smallest sized lots in the area because it's the closest lake/river town to Watertown being only 10-12 minutes travel time rush hour. Many of the Watertown area business owners, Doctors and Attorney's live there. Also, Sacketts with it's (newly renovated) old military housing has attracted many Army brass from nearby Fort Drum.

The town of Chaumont (pronounced Sha-Mow) is about a 20 minute drive from Watertown and has a very nice harbor and a local boating club for both motor and sail boats. Land is more abundant so lots near lake Ontario are larger and property values are lower too.

The "best kept secret" (seriously) is the Village of Clayton which is on the St.Lawrence River and about 30 minute drive from Watertown (rush hour) has all the boating amenities you will ever need, and the 2 Best Parts are: The international bridge (interstate 81) is few minutes away, go to Ontario Canada!! Also, Clayton is the BEST year round town for daily living, restaurants and shopping. There are ALWAYS homes for sale near the water.. not cottages (manufactured housing). It's centrally located between "Alex"ander Bay (the summertime party capital of the north country) and Cape Vincent (Best of the Best quiet little village, where the lake meets the river). There is a brand new hotel-year round resort being built as I type. A few of Clayton's year round stores are: White's Lumber (a small Lowes), a Big-M Supermarket Chain, and several large banks. For Medical, the River Hospital is 15 minutes away in Alex Bay or 30 minutes to Watertown Hospital. You have nice islands to look or boat over to, including Boldt or Singer Castle nearby. Elementary school, Baptist, Methodist and Catholic churches in the Village, while the Thousand Islands Middle & High School is 7-1/2 minutes towards Cape Vincent... and the schools are good too.

Bottom line is, I've been living in the Cape Vincent (the best of the best quiet village place to live) 5 to 6 months per year for 6 years now while spending the ballance in the Southern USA, but still consider buying another home in Clayton just for the winter months when I'm in the north country snowboarding, ice fishing and snowmobiling... but have not cottoned to the idea of 2 part-time homes yet.

Sacketts Harbor, Cape Vincent, Clayton and Alex Bay have their own websites... but remember that there's both a Village and Township area of each. Most have their seperate DPW's and Governments and the township portions are still very rural-agricultural.

Good Luck !!