Worried About Wind Turbines (Lackawanna, Oneida: houses, buy, schools)

[Birder]

Living in Andes NY for a few years now and constantly surprised by it's beauty. The recent debate re wind turbines strikes terror in my heart.

How likely is this possibility?

[MandyL]

Hi, Last time I was upstate NY I saw signs about not wanting wind turbines, what is the dispute about? I will be moving up there soon.

[honeychrome]

The dispute is all about 'viewshed.' Whiny, NIMBY, middle and upper class types who want to be free to cruise around in their gass guzzling SUVs, heat and A/C their new McMansions or quaint, renovated and energy inefficient old farm houses and don't want to have to witness any evidence of where all the energy they consume comes from. Strip mine for coal in a poor part of WV, have a war to keep the oil pupming from the Middle East, but god forbid if they should have to look out their window and see a wind turbine up on a hill providing some local, renewable and relatively clean power. "Oh, but the noise...!" These turbines would need to be on fairly high hilltops to maximize efficiency and output- up where there are few if any houses (impractical site for the old farmhouses, very expensive site for the new McMansions). They are not particularly loud, and the sound increases with the speed of the wind, so natural wind noise covers the noise of the turbines. Or would you rather we just keep burning up the fossil fuels and pumping CO2 into the air, which ultimately will really do a job on the 'view' as the climate heats up and begins killing off plants and animals. And the "turbines kill birds" argument doesn't get far either- many more birds have been killed by fossil fuel extraction and pollution (and oil spills, and habitat destruction, and and and...) than could be killed by running into a turbine. Personally I'd rather look out and see a windmill here and there amongst the trees than look upon a dying environment.

And further, Delaware County is I believe the poorest county in NY. Generally I don't buy the trump card of 'job creation' justifying and and all schemes, but few local jobs building and maintaining some wind turbines might not be the worst of things.

OK, sorry for the rant, but it really seems like we're facing some serious energy and environmental issues in the world today and battling against wind power for petty aesthetic reasons is short sighted and defies logic.

[CJF]

Madison County and Oneida County have them. They ruined the view from my parents' porch.

http://www.madisoncounty.org/Pressrelease/windmills.htm (broken link)

removed

Click on the slide show. My parents are in the process of trying to sell their home. The realtor did a good job of hiding the windmills, but with the views they have as you can see from the pictures you can see why they don't like them.

[lilmoxy]

Isn't it funny that those of us who will be impacted the most with the sight and sound of these wind turbines is opposed and those that aren't directly affected have the - "what's the big deal attitude".

It's not about being rich and having the views ruined. The small towns in Western NY where they want to put them are quite rural and poor. The rich with their "McMansions" don't live there - it's too country for most.

I'm for alternative power and conservation, but how about targeting the big industries that use more fossil fuels and contribute more pollution and then the average household. Maybe they should put them on top of the tall buildings in cities where they are needed most instead of ruining it for the rest of us.

Some one should explain why they have to be 400 ft tall! They create noise and because they are so large and require such a large cement pad they actually affect groundwater supplies. In WNY they aren't putting them on top of hills where no one lives, they are putting them in small towns in farmer's fields. Gone will be the tranquility of country living. It will be replaced with the woooo woooo of wind turbines that can fit a passenger plan between the blades.

To those that want them- put them in your backyard.

[William Gatenson]

Originally Posted by lilmoxy

Isn't it funny that those of us who will be impacted the most with the sight and sound of these wind turbines is opposed and those that aren't directly affected have the - "what's the big deal attitude".


Some one should explain why they have to be 400 ft tall! They create noise and because they are so large and require such a large cement pad they actually affect groundwater supplies. In WNY they aren't putting them on top of hills where no one lives, they are putting them in small towns in farmer's fields. Gone will be the tranquility of country living. It will be replaced with the woooo woooo of wind turbines that can fit a passenger plan between the blades.

To those that want them- put them in your backyard.

1. As a matter of a fact, I live 3 miles from 4, 1.8 megawatt vestas wind turbines. I have NEVER heard any noise from them at all, and I have stood right beneath them. They do not disturb the tranquility of my country living. As a matter of a fact, they cheer me up every time that I drive past them on my way to work. The fact that my town is powered by 20% (Bowling Green, Ohio) wind power is amazing to me, and is proof positive that wind works.

2. They have to be 400 feet tall for two reasons. First there is less wind closer to the ground, and you can't put a 150' blade onto a 100' tower. And actually, the larger that the turbine is, generally, the less audible the blade noise is anyway (lower RPM's = lower frequency sound). The turbines near me are nearly subsonic.

Also, please explain how a cement pad can affect the water supply.

p.s. You are correct that they are not generally put on top of hills.

[honeychrome]

Originally Posted by lilmoxy

To those that want them- put them in your backyard.

Well, isn't that exactly what the landowners who are signing development contracts with energy companies to allow the building of windmills on their land are doing?

And the oil or coal being burned to produce the electricity that powers your lifestyle is being pumped or dug out of someone's 'backyard' somewhere! Out of sight, out of mind, right?

The communities targeted for windfarm development should see the opportunity here- big energy companies have determined that there is a profit to be made here, they've done the general siting research, etc. Of course, they'll come in, MAYBE there will be one or two long-term local maintenance jobs created (and odds are the building teams will be imported), the power generated will be sold elsewhere and/or sold back to the local community at a profit for the company, and that money will will be siphoned out of the community. A few token pennies will come into the community for the right to 'mine' a local resource and export the product and the profits. A smart community would form it's own community-owned electric corporation to develop local windfarms, first to provide power to the community and second, to sell the surplus outside the community. I imagine that many of those opposed to windfarms would reconsider if they knew their electric bills could be ultimately reduced by 70-80%, maybe even more. Profit from the surplus could be put to tax relief, the local schools, etc. And the community would own and control the operation. Oh, but of course this is an un-American notion.... better to have a big, outside corporation come in to develop and exploit a resource and take the profits to an offshore bank account- it's more 'efficient!'

[mhogan10010]

Wind turbines are a nice idea, but not really a solution to the energy problems we have. You would have to turn half of rural America in to Turbine Fields to touch the problem. Its going to take much smarter solutions than wind turbines to really make a dent.

[honeychrome]

Originally Posted by mhogan10010

Wind turbines are a nice idea, but not really a solution to the energy problems we have. You would have to turn half of rural America in to Turbine Fields to touch the problem. Its going to take much smarter solutions than wind turbines to really make a dent.

Ah, yes, a mythical 'smarter solution!' Lets all just tut-tut about the problem and cling to the irrational faith that 'technology' will someday provide a solution- one that won't require us to change a thing about the way we live and the way we waste energy. Why bother working on boring and outdated energy sources like wind and solar or trying to be more efficient with our usage when we've got safe, clean, healthy, and abundant sources of power like coal from mountain-top removal mining, nuclear power, etc?

No, there is no single, magic solution to our energy problems, but wind power certainly can be a substantial PART of a solution.

[aka_mouse]

Not that I think the wind power issue shouldn't be discussed... but these people for the most part are whiners (IMO). If its not country bumpkins out in the middle of nowhere then its someone else.

They are planning on putting about 8 of these on lake Erie in Lackawanna , onthe site of the now nearly empty, polluted and deteriorating Bethlehem Steel complex. --- And people are complaining about that too !

This is basically whats there now:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3743421