Albany vs Rochester (New York, Buffalo, Boston: how much, law school, to live)

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by JiminCT

Why don't you post a link to prove just how affluent those Rochester communities are vs. the rest of the upstate cities mentioned. We have heard a lot of nebulous hype...lets see a link with some hard data.
2006 estimate 2000
Rochester-Seneca Falls-Batavia 1,128,989 1,131,543 -0.23%
Albany-Amsterdam-Schenetady 1,147,914 1,118,095 +2.67%

And the primary list...
Table of United States primary census statistical areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But keep hyping Rochester...you are in company with Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Utica, and Syracuse as metro areas that are in decline...

People are no doubt leaving the upper eastern quadrant of the country in search of better jobs, weather and such but combine it with a record number of baby boomers retiring and the loss of major industries in those areas, it's to be expected. The numbers for Rochester are actually lower than I thought they would be as we have lost some major white collar jobs within Kodak and Xerox and Bausch and Lomb. Overall, we have done a good job maintaining IMO although I do find Seneca Falls and Batavia conjoined with Rochester as a bit odd; they are quite a distance apart from one another. Albany benefits from the insulating factor of being the capital of the state. There are constant influxes of people for govt jobs ( and we in NY know you can't have too much govt LOL) and the dominoe factor results as services for those people are constructed which in turn, creates MORe jobs.....

What I find most interesting is that there are communities within the "hotspots" of the country (NC, FL, CA, AZ, TN, and the like) that have population drops as large and larger than Rochester area...care to give your thoughts on that? And then there's Archorage (126) with a 12 plus increase?? Snowy, dark, cold, and a job market that is very very limited yet 40,000 people have joined it's ranks...that certainly goes against the grain does it not?

Also, I'm curious why you stomp on Rochester so: are you from this area and lost your livelihood or just dislike it naturally? It is a community on the verge of a turnaround and for someone to continually rant against it gets old for us who are pushing for it's success.....What would you like us who live and thrive (yes, thrive) here do? Burn down our homes and run to Raleigh proclaiming "Yes, yes upstate NY DOES s***!!!!!!" and become just another one of the lemmings tripping over each other??????

PS..one more for Wegmans: my 24 yr old son who lives in NYC (and loves it) has come home for the week and what does he miss the most (aside from friends and family)? Yes, Wegmans! So I'm putting together a care package to carry him over until next visit of things he NEVER sees in the groceries down there ....(And this is a kid who spent last weekend at a client-sponsored reception at a museum near Central Pk being wined and dined; he does have some depth!)

[Miker]

While doing a little research on this discussion I found this:

The Best Places With The Best Education - Forbes.com

I was very surprised to find that both Albany and Rochester made a Forbes top ten list!!!

Note to those in Rochester, this is not meant to rub in your face that Albany scored slightly higher, the difference between the two scores is negligible and could probably be explained away by some kind of statistical standard deviation.

Something for both cities to be proud of!!!

[StealthyItalian]

I am originally from utica i now live in rochester, ny. Culture is great out here the international jazz fest is amazing brings out some of the best jazz muscians in the country is a week long and cant be touched remotely by anything that occurs in albany. Like many have said already you cant go wrong with the best grocery stores in the country(wegmans) that is the 2nd best company to work for in america. Real estate is cheaper compared to albany. I have a sister in Albany and she hates me because i have a bigger apt that costs less a month then her. Also, you like outdoor things we have the grand canyon of the east in letchworth st park. Lots of lakes finger lakes lake ontario. New yorks Wine country. As far as sport teams go we have one for just about every sport. I have to say one big downside to rochester is the murder, we have more then 1 a week on average.

[PENTHOUSE-B]

Originally Posted by smalltownusa

People are no doubt leaving the upper eastern quadrant of the country in search of better jobs, weather and such but combine it with a record number of baby boomers retiring and the loss of major industries in those areas, it's to be expected. The numbers for Rochester are actually lower than I thought they would be as we have lost some major white collar jobs within Kodak and Xerox and Bausch and Lomb. Overall, we have done a good job maintaining IMO although I do find Seneca Falls and Batavia conjoined with Rochester as a bit odd; they are quite a distance apart from one another. Albany benefits from the insulating factor of being the capital of the state. There are constant influxes of people for govt jobs ( and we in NY know you can't have too much govt LOL) and the dominoe factor results as services for those people are constructed which in turn, creates MORe jobs.....

What I find most interesting is that there are communities within the "hotspots" of the country (NC, FL, CA, AZ, TN, and the like) that have population drops as large and larger than Rochester area...care to give your thoughts on that? And then there's Archorage (126) with a 12 plus increase?? Snowy, dark, cold, and a job market that is very very limited yet 40,000 people have joined it's ranks...that certainly goes against the grain does it not?

Also, I'm curious why you stomp on Rochester so: are you from this area and lost your livelihood or just dislike it naturally? It is a community on the verge of a turnaround and for someone to continually rant against it gets old for us who are pushing for it's success.....What would you like us who live and thrive (yes, thrive) here do? Burn down our homes and run to Raleigh proclaiming "Yes, yes upstate NY DOES s***!!!!!!" and become just another one of the lemmings tripping over each other??????

PS..one more for Wegmans: my 24 yr old son who lives in NYC (and loves it) has come home for the week and what does he miss the most (aside from friends and family)? Yes, Wegmans! So I'm putting together a care package to carry him over until next visit of things he NEVER sees in the groceries down there ....(And this is a kid who spent last weekend at a client-sponsored reception at a museum near Central Pk being wined and dined; he does have some depth!)

Did Rochester have success mitigating the (Kodak) Dioxin pollution? Is there still action being taken or have things been quieted? By the way, if your son enjoys Wegmans, he might want to visit Whole Foods in Time Warner at Columbus Circle .

[Miker]

Originally Posted by Miker

While doing a little research on this discussion I found this:

The Best Places With The Best Education - Forbes.com

I was very surprised to find that both Albany and Rochester made a Forbes top ten list!!!

Note to those in Rochester, this is not meant to rub in your face that Albany scored slightly higher, the difference between the two scores is negligible and could probably be explained away by some kind of statistical standard deviation.

Something for both cities to be proud of!!!

Ugh! I just re-read this post and realized how sarcastic and obnoxious I came off in my "Note to those in Rochester" part. I really didn't mean it to sound like that. Unfortunately it is too late for me to edit it now.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I really just wanted to point out a positive of both cities.

[JiminCT]

Lol...those stats are from an article that is 5 years old (June 2002)!!! But dont let an antiquated article get in the way of facts. Watertown NY was a wealthy town once too...

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by JiminCT

Lol...those stats are from an article that is 5 years old (June 2002)!!! But dont let an antiquated article get in the way of facts. Watertown NY was a wealthy town once too...

You're splitting hairs now as 5 years is hardly antiquated information.....economic ups and downs in communities move at a turtle's pace with the exception of a catastrophic event such as H Katrina and New Orleans which was, of course, instantaneous. The facts presented in the post are right on and if anything, underestimated, as an economic revival has been underway as the scaling back of Kodak, Xerox and B&L has been absorbed into other areas economic bases.

And if you have ever traveled through the eastern suburbs of Rochester, (Pittsford, Mendon) although I haven't actually gone up to the residences and inquired, I'm guessing the new homes of gigantic proportions that have filled the farmland (much to many's dismay) are owned by wealthy individuals who most likely reside in the Rochester area......or maybe they commute from Watertown? LOL

[I'minformed2]

Don't even bother anymore....even when presented with facts the arrogant kid just keeps believing what he wants to about our fine hometown. If he thinks the stats would have changed at all in 5 years (if they have, it would only be that all of the towns have seen their average income go up)...it's pretty clear that he doesn't know what he's talking about and just can't handle being wrong.

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by i'minformed

Don't even bother anymore....even when presented with facts the arrogant kid just keeps believing what he wants to about our fine hometown. If he thinks the stats would have changed at all in 5 years (if they have, it would only be that all of the towns have seen their average income go up)...it's pretty clear that he doesn't know what he's talking about and just can't handle being wrong.

Agreed....a case of arguing for argument's sake I would say.......Rochester is known for years a being an economic gem in upstate and those of us who live here ( and many who have let and come back) are aware of it...today, after some much needed rain, it's sunny and gorgeous out and I'm looking forward to a culture-filled weekend of music and festivals that this area knows how to do......Shakespeare in the Park anyone?

[JiminCT]

Splitting hair on a five year article? Since 2002...

2004...12 to 15,000 layoffs from Kodak
July 21 2005..Kodak announced an additional 10,000 layoffs

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...507210367/1001

That couldnt possibly affect those 2002 statistics....

"lso, I'm curious why you stomp on Rochester so: are you from this area and lost your livelihood or just dislike it naturally? It is a community on the verge of a turnaround and for someone to continually rant against it gets old for us who are pushing for it's success.....What would you like us who live and thrive (yes, thrive) here do? Burn down our homes and run to Raleigh proclaiming "Yes, yes upstate NY DOES s***!!!!!!" and become just another one of the lemmings tripping over each other??????"

I dont intensely dislike Rochester. Having spent a great deal of time there for work has given me a pretty good look at the psych of the community. Most of locals seem to speak its praise and hype it beyond understandable reasons. Maybe its becuase they are 70 miles from anything else. Reasons that mask what the town really is from an outsiders view..and what many of my out-of-town colleagues believe...that it is going the Buffalo route and dying on the vine like many rust belt cities. Most of the upstate cities have pockets of wealth...but the inner urban areas are decaying rapidly. Even UTICA has a couple of nice suburbs (New Hartford). Most of these cities are in DONUT mode...the suburbs are growing, but the city is decaying..without any real population growth in the metro areas (or in the case of Buffalo, Roch, and Syracuse...population loss). I'm not sure if its denial..but people from Rochester try to buffer and mask whats really going on a large scale. A comeback/revival...give me a break. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, and Binghamton are ALL high tax/cold weather locations. How many cities in the rust belt have made comeback revivals? Cleveland, Pittsburgh? They are STILL losing people. Despite the surroundings...that isnt a good mix for a long term economic climate. You can try to blame Albany or NYC for upstates woes...but thats not the issue (NYC is high tax AND dynamic). Basic point many businesses dont want to move to upstate cities anymore. Rochester might have a good local community (and is highly praised by the locals) and a good supermarket...but from my experience...is also is VERY parochial. Many people cant seem to bear criticism or critiquing of their beloved hometown.. confusing it as a "bad attitude" and "immature". Being intellectually dishonest is what irks me about many Rochesterians. An example...with all those affluent towns and supposed progressive communities, you would think Whole Foods, Wild Oats, and Trader Joes would have moved there. I doubt they are not there because Wegmans is stopping them.

I'm from Connecticut..a world away in many regards. But I dont get in a huff if folks from NYC or Boston think the Hartford area is a bore or the city is the Detroit of New England. If you cant take constructive criticism...you'll end up like our president.