Tips on moving to rural New York State

[Pidgett]

Previously, poster averagenyjoe said:

"[t]he cell coverage is pitiful. There are so many dead spots you can almost never complete an average length conversation. I wonder if the environmental folks have something to do with it."

Would you be willing to get rid of NYS's environmental protection laws? Just because cell phone service is problematic, don't make an illogical statement that the "environmental folks" are to blame. Crappy cell coverage is the fault of the cell-service providers competing against each other and NOT agreeing upon transmission standards. (I know what I'm talking about, having a son who works as an electronics engineer for A T & T.) If they wanted to, the cell companies could use a technology callled OTHRB to make do with less additional cell towers. But because these companies are not regulated, they spite each other in not allowing one company to use the other's technology. So as a result from the competitive bickering and the lack of FCC regulation to address the lack of a univerisal standard, the ever-expanding "forest" of cell towers litter the landscape. Why, then, isn't this technology universal? Because the cell phone companies don't want their competitors to share in having multi-accessed cell tower sites that transmit and receive OTHRB which would provide great coverage for all companies, not just the single US company that "monopolizes" OTHBR. In a way they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. And the consumer suffers from inadequate quality and poor coverage, not to mention a degraded environment. And judging by the fact that you say that North Carolina has coverage throughout the state, they most likely have a degraded environment.


"They [North Carolina] dont care a hoot about the environment or wetlands. They build anything, anytime and anywhere."

I would HATE New York Sate forever and move away in a heartbeat if your statement above substituted North Carolina with New York State. Your observation stated says it all!

Pidge

[averagenyjoe]

Thank you pidgett for this information about how cell companies work. I honestly did not realize why things get held up like they do. I would have thought there are standards of operation that apply the same in every state.

On the environmental side, The opporative word was I "wonder" and my point was that in the city areas of which my life centers (for now at least). I hear it said that local environmentalists hold up so many projects because there may be 1/4 acre of mushy ground with 3 cat-tails and they call it a wetland and refuse to grant a permit. I get so confused at what constitutes "wetlands" in an area that is already perfectly zoned for responsible development. Sometimes we take pop-shots at our allies and friends that opperate on the fringe.

On the other hand, please re-read my frustration of NC when I say "...don’t give a hoot..." One of the several reasons I left NC was because of their total disregard of the environment and the chaotic, irresponsible development. I am currently battling in my mind how to balance development with environmental protections. I am a member of 3 prominent environmental organizations and would join a couple others if I had the money. I appreciate NY for its many protections. I really do. I even like to see our cities spotted with allot of nice parks and open space between the development but I can never understand why 3 cat-tails would hold up something useful in such an area. I lean toward the strict protectionist but there are those that are extreme and I would not be in that group. By the way, I actually hate cell phones. I think their use is almost cult-like and wouldn’t have one myself If I wasn’t in a job that requires me to be on call 24/7/365. But it is nice to know its probably not the extremist that hold up the cell program. Interestingly, NC was able to have much better coverage and one way they put up a tower was to rent space inside the steeple of a local church. It was the perfect solution to an aggravating gap in coverage. Why cant we strike deals like that here??? Also, I was one on the edge of my seat with concern about putting towers up along the Northway in the Adirondacks. I was pleased with the compromise they struck in order to get the coverage as long as politics said it had to be done. And it really isnt a bad idea.

hope that helps

[itSmellsBAD]

Welcome to CAFO HELL (broken link)

Watch out for the Factory Farms if you are considering a move to rural NY. The dairy operations (CAFO's) confine hundreds and sometimes thousands of animals in a small area and store millions of gallons of waste in open air pits the size of a football field. You can smell them for miles and they will destroy your property value in a heartbeat. They tanker truck the manure slurry out to the fields to spread for weeks at a time, often right up to your property line. They do this several times a year. It smells nothing like manure and will stay on your cloths. You can even taste it in your mouth after you brush your teeth. It's that bad. All the dairy farms are expanding due to record high milk prices and increased government welfare payments. Just because a dairy farm is small now doesn't mean it will stay that way. They are under enourmous pressure to expand and the government is paying them to do so. Now they are trying to bring HOG factory farms into NY because they are being driven out of southern states and NY is factory farm friendly. Neighbors are fighting a Hog Factory Farm near Montezuma Swamp near Syracuse. Industrial Dairy farms are horrible enough but HOG farms are as bad as it gets. There is also the issue of well water contamination which was a huge issue this year near Batavia NY. Check out this blog for some info and photos of factory farms. Make sure you look at all the older posts for some horrific photos of residential manure spreading on snow covered ground. Welcome to CAFO HELL (broken link)

[Pidgett]

Hi Averagenyjoe!

Your response to me was very uplifting. Your general outlook on environmental concerns are commendable. You spelled out a sensible approach to figuring out the pluses and minuses to the environmental impacts certain types of development present--in this particular case, the addition of more cell towers and what appears to be overly-strict wetlands restrictions; i.e., the three acres of muddy cattatils.

Glad also to hear that you feel cell-phones are really too much an inescapable nuisance that falls into the category of "can't live with them, but you can't live without them!"

Based on what you've mentioned (along with other sources) about North Carolina's willingness to forego environmental regualtions with respect to unbridled development, I have no plans to move or retire there, ever.

Best,

Pidgett

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by aka_mouse

What part of 'Bethlehem Steel' & brownfield did you not understand? They are being built on post-industrial, contaminated wasteland.




Uhm my point is people out in these way out communities live inefficiently to begin with. Youre not out there living off the land. Your on the power grid. Yet you wish to contribute nothing to greater area as a whole. Yeah you can argue whether these turbines are going to be a major source of energy or not... who cares. If they start losing money, they'll stop being built. You keep saying they will be there forever.. uh they'll be there forever if they work out. If not - they wont be. They could taken down easier than they were put up.

Also, They way people freak out about these things, youd think the turbine converts air currents into toxic, nuclear waste and spews it out all over the bottom of the tower.

You're a NIMBY, and your complaints are aesthetic, nothing more. The people freaking out don't like seeing a turbine so then they start saying how they are money-losing investment scams. Well as soon as thats revealed the $ will dry up. Why should you care? If the area isnt restricted from certain types of construction and someone wants to build something there they can.

And, making this whole thing even more hialrious to me: its usually the conservatoid rural-folk that sit there and decry strict zoning regulations as infringing on capitalism and individuals property rights (I.e. Portland, OR - that can outright prevent you from developing your own property done to prevent sprawl and preserve greenspace/rural areas, which IMO they are absolutely correct in doing so)

I agree w/mouse! Best use of the brownfields in Lackawanna is those turbines. There is so much from the steel plants there, it isn't good for much. Plus, right near lake Erie, they do have the wind. Lots of it!! There are also wind farms in the southern tier, newest ones west of Arcade. Friends of the family living where the site is were asked if they wanted to sell land to the windfarm developer ( they didn't) and were informed they were going up. They said fine. They had the option to sell.... granted, not everyone does, but this group asked.

You are not granted rural purity by buying land somewhere. Anyone can buy what is next to you , for whatever purpose they want, as long as the Zoning allows it.

If the land is in the State area for hunting ( go look up the hunting regs -- get it anywhere they sell hunting licenses), you can post your land. It still doesn't guanantee some signs won't go down or someone misses them, so just stay out of the woods the first week unless you have on blaze orange ( find out when the seasons are - there is bow, muzzleloader, spring and fall, turkey, bear, deer, etc, etc,,,,,,,,, I am in Erie County and my land is huntable, 500 feet from any building. ) The city idiots all usually come and try to get a deer the first day.

You are old enough to go to your town hall and find out if there are Zoning Laws. Find out what yours are. (There is a NY zoning code; some rural areas do not have to use it) Find out when the town meetings, planning board and zoning boards are and attend them. They have to be posted before each one. It is a law. It is also a law that town zoning is an open meeting. Some meetings are not, but you can make yourself heard. Same for your building department. Find out about permits for buildings.

On my road, no one bothers each other about such stuff. Most of us have been here years. In new homes, you see lots of people rushing to developments... wanting to be "in the country" -- then bemoaning the home next door as taking their green space. After that, they want a fence. ASoon, it looks like the city all over again -- just bigger and uglier, as developers stripped the mature trees before they built.

Don't complain unless you are prepared to do your homework. NIMBYs should stay in the city.

[GoldenCrow]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

Don't complain unless you are prepared to do your homework. NIMBYs should stay in the city.

True...it's a good rule of thumb to not complain about, or activley support, something that you haven't made an honest effort to understand. As I'm sure you've been able to see from other posts, the issues around wind energy development are complicated and deserve careful research.

The environmental movement was founded by people who had a great love for a place and wanted to protect it. I try to be respectful of that, rather than sling mud and call people NIMBY's.

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

You are not granted rural purity by buying land somewhere. Anyone can buy what is next to you , for whatever purpose they want, as long as the Zoning allows it.

This is so not true. Many times zoning laws have acceptions that do not allow someone to block your 'view' among other things, even if it would generally be accepted by zoning laws

[BuffaloTransplant]

I have a family member who is on our town zoning board. Every item requested that is beyond the town zoning code must be published in 3 locations and posted in Town Hall. ( that is our local paper, town paper and pennysaver and a posting) Every person w/in 100 feet of the property line is notified and so is the town next to it if the property is withing 1,000 feet. ANY person who wants to attend ( or if they can't, write to the Town ) can speak their peace. The amount of paperwork and which regulations are needing variances are sometimes substantial and the responsibility of the person/s requesting the variance. Every Zoning Board considers the variance/s, votes on it, and -- in some cases -- kicks it back to the Town Board. Sometimes the cases go round and round for months. [Ex:Here, a cell phone company wanted a tower. After months of kicking it around, it was decided all the towers had to be on town land and a good % of income was to the town. All the companies had to use the same towers. The town makes money.]

Exceptions are given when the zoning board has no complaints or the variance is reasonable. If you are upset w/ windmills, and you live in the line of sight, then you need to go do your homework every month and go to zoning and town meetings. I would imagine many people who are upset over windmills don't even live in the towns they are in.... they just happen to see them, miles away. Therefore, people need to know where they look and what they see and what town it is in. They need to know about their meetings and zoning codes. In the event the town does NOT have a zoning board, they need to know about the town planning board and meetings.

No one owns the line of sight rural purity. You are being unrealistic.

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

No one owns the line of sight rural purity. You are being unrealistic.

Well, its more of something you would have to 'sue' over, but its very possible to win