The Adirondacks vs. Vermont (Plattsburgh: pictures, summer, European)

[trusty]

Originally Posted by VTP

I agree with most of the observations already posted, but I would add one that I feel is significant, which is the abundance of water in NY!

This is a big issue - the water. the Adies have the most beautiful lakes
and waterways and your are right VT has very few. It seems like the best skiing is in VT and the best water is the Adies... neither place has it all.

[wcasler]

frontiernet.net is what a lot of people use up that way!!

[IfULivedHere]

What about ADKs versus the lakes regions of Maine. Either southern Maine- Sebago lake region, or northern Maine - Moosehead or Millinocket area? Are the ADKs similiar in geography, population density, and level of relaxation. Obviously the ADKs don't have a saltwater coastline.

Can anyone with experience in the ADKs breakdown the various nuisances of the different counties, or distinct regions? Is there a big difference in Warren county (Lake George) versus Hamilton or Herkimer counties? Is one region a haven for NYC weekenders versus more seclusion and solitude in other regions?

If I have 1 week in the summertime can someone give me a good "loop" up and in by way of the I-87 corridor that would give me exposure to a variety of different areas. Tent camping and staying in less expensive hotels would probably be the preferred lodging. Also would bring the wife, 1.5-yr old, and 4-yr old.

Sorry to ask so much in a single message but thought I'd try to kill multiple birds with one stone.

[plattsburgher]

If I were to compare the ADKs to the mountainous section of Maine, in some ways they would be similar in that both areas are beautiful but in places very sparsely populated. Maine is a huge state and the ADKs are a large area, but the ADKs have many villages, towns sprinkled with each definitely having its own personality. From what I have seen in Maine, not so much? Much less populated in the interior section of the state. Most of Maine's population is coastal. Towns are really tiny the more inland you go. The ADK summits are generally 3 to 4 thousand feet. Not sure about Maine mountaintop heights?

I am sure that you would have a fantastic time making a trip throughout the area. Lake George is much different than Lake Placid is different than Saranac Lake is different than Long Lake is different than Saratoga and Plattsburgh and Raquette Lake. Try not to miss the new museum of the ADKs in Tupper Lake and there are 2 NY nature interpretive centers and lots of old ADK camps complete with canoe trips, fly fishing lessons, camping, hiking, loons, gorgeous starlit nights, and a sense of going back into history. My children learned so much from all of our trips. There are some great little waterfalls sprinkled around the area and if you get a tourbook about the area, they list them all. Some are surprisingly easy to get to........Buttermilk Falls?????? There are locks around Saranac Lake and you can rent a canoe/boat and go through the three locks to get to your personal spot of paradise complete with waterlilies and jumping fish in summer and go pick your own wild blueberries for pancakes in the am. Don't forget Fort Ticonderoga and some other historical spots that still have massive walled fortress areas and lots of Revolutionary War swords, weapons and artifacts. You can check out the ski jumps and Olympic arenas in Lake Placid even in summer as the teams practice on plastic-coated ramps and land in huge pools of water to keep their skills up in the summer. Each county up here has a great Chamber of Commerce...........most towns do too. Oh, and the old architecture of towns right on Lake Champlain like Essex, New York and Westport is amazing. They have a old fashioned fourth of July parade near the town square, and have a dog parade with prizes for best in show/costumes. Each area has its own personality.........There are many campgrounds around in the area also.............it is beautiful here in the summer. Nothing like it...........Will try to find some websites when I have a chance.

[IfULivedHere]

That's awesome Pbrgr! I'm really interested in those old ADK camps with that activities that you mentioned that would be perfect! Just need to decide if we should spend a week at a "home base" or should be 2-night nomads for the week.

I was looking at the NYS page of the atlas last night and drew roughly a triangle from L. George to Tupper lake then to L Placid, and back down I-87. I had thought of Ft. Tic because I love that stuff, but had figured on skipping L. Champlain this trip. But with your talk of Essex and Westport looks like I have to do that too.

Other than just getting away and seeing some nature I have an ulterior motive for this trip. To try and home in on a future spot to purchase some land in the next 3-5 years. The idea would be to keep it fairly primitive while the kids grow up - basically like a private campground. When my wife and I get them out of the house then maybe we'll build something a little more permanent. I love Maine but from where we live in the Baltimore, MD region it's about 8 driving hours to the Portland area and another 2-4 beyond that depending on the region - either mountains and wilderness (Moosehead or Baxter) or coast (Bar Harbor, Acadia). I think mapquest said I can get to the Schroon Lake area in about 6hrs and Lake Placid in 8.5. That's doable for our family as we do the Balt to Rochester, NY (my hometown) 4-5 times a year and usually it's a Fri-Sun trip.

Thanks much

[plattsburgher]

If I had a limited time frame, maybe instead of doing Essex and Westport which are very quaint and beautiful like stepping back into time as old villages used to be, just do the route as you said. Sometimes if you try to cram too much in, it becomes more about the trip, not the adventure. Essex and Westport will be there next time.

There is also a place called Old Forge, NY which is in the deepest part of the ADKs and they have a huge water slide park in summer and then there is a train connecting Lake Placid with North Creek (where Roosevelt got the news that he was the new president). Lots of history but depending on how old your kids are, might be a yawn. Blue Mountain Museum in the Raquette Lake area can take days to see...........That is where the Buttermilk Falls are also and there is a sightseeing boat that I believe actually has to deliver mail to the island residents during the summer, so that is another thing that you don't see everyday.

Your plan to get some land is a popular one these days. Land is really cheap up this far, but of course the closer you get to Albany/downstate, the more expensive it is. If you are serious, you might even want to jump on it now while people may be trying to unload for extra money to pay mortgages, etc. Farms are a dying breed and you might get lucky if you place an ad in the Schroon Lake area newspaper or at least get a subscription for Sundays. That's what I am doing for a place nearer my elderly parents. You start to get a real feel for the price range and what is the average. Things have changed already in the past 5 or 6 years and I notice everytime I drive back to the ADKs from Albany (daughter is in college there) that there are TONS of cars heading back to Jersey with those license plates coming from the northway (I-87). People have a lot of "second homes/camps" and are doing what you are doing. Taking care of the property until they are able to escape the city altogether when older. If you are able to do it sooner than later, you will get a better deal....................The locals are starting to recognize the trend from downstaters, but you can still get some great pieces of land (some with water access) for a lot less than anywhere I have ever seen. Camp Sagamore is known for being an awesome camp with amazing buildings and moose antler trophies, etc..........classic ADK style furnishings and fireplaces, wood inside and out and boathouses, etc.............There are probably more. Oh, there is one called Santanoni ??????? Would have to Google that one to find out more. A couple of new parcels that are canoeable just opened up last summer to public access that were owned by the Whitney family and were always private but are now public domain. AND.............IF you come up here in August, you HAVE to check out the racetrack at Saratoga. You can park for 5 bucks, pay maybe 5 to get in and bet a dollar on all seven races, and go right down front by the fence and actually feel the horses rush by you. My kids loved it. The horses are gorgeous and you walk right by the training homes and stables just like it was 100 years ago. It isn't trashy at all like you usually think of a racetrack and the place dates back to the 1800's and is just gorgeous. You can get a Nathan's dog with ***** and a beer! You may already know about that though............Just more ideas.

[plattsburgher]

The bleeped word was sauerkraut. What's up with that?

[nunoco]

Originally Posted by plattsburgher

The bleeped word was sauerkraut. What's up with that?

...the robots will not tolerate any anti-German sentiment!

[IfULivedHere]

Some great ideas. My parents actually used to take us up to Olde Forge and beyond from Roch. when we were small kids. I think they used to run TV commericals all the time-Enchanted Forest and Water Safari right? I also remember going to the North Pole.

Please feel free to start a new thread or anwser off line. I've probably started a HiJack. It's evident from the research that I've been doing that the more easily accessible areas in proximity to I-87 and closer to the NYC region - Lake George area, are the most expensive to purchase and even for summer rental. Again comparing prices (rental and for sale) it looks like either the farther north (towards P'burg), or the further west (towards W'town) is much less expensive. Also seems like the Champlain waterfront, or near-water areas of Essex county are more reasonable than lake front on the west side of I-87.

I was thinking maybe we'd see about renting a place at Silver Bay (L. George) the YMCA camp on the lake. I spent a week there with a friend and his family when I was a young teenager. It would probably be a good home base to do a few day trips further in plus we'll probably bring the extend family so will have 3 little ones and possibly a mother-in-law who doesn't get around real well. The other option I thought was to find a weekly rental in the Indian lake, Blue Mtn area because of the central location. I really do want to checkout Essex, Westport, Wahdam, Willsboro. Which actually we may be able to do on a long weekend on a separate trip.

What can you tell me about the north areas - Malone, Churubusuco, Ellensburg. I know they're not "in" the AP but can you still see the mountains and do they feel like the "wilderness", close to nature, etc. My wife and my jaw drop when we see what is available for less than $100K. 4-bedroom farm house with a few acres and a pond.

[plattsburgher]

First of all, I don't think this topic is a "hi-jack" at all or off topic. We started out with ADKs vs. Vermont and this is how I see it and I have lived in other places, but have lived here for the past 26 years which is approximately half my life..........eeeeek!

If there is something I forget to answer, just remind me. Yes, the things you mentioned as a kid are still here...............They just had a segment on a tv show about Santa's Workshop and I remember so vividly taking our kids there when they were little and they got to pet the reindeer and one child was singled out to go up on stage for a show. It was a hoot. I even bought the sheet music for the theme song so I could play it when we got home. Memorable childhood experience close to Lake Placid.........

OK. Get out a map large enough to have both upstate NY and Vermont on it..........the region that borders Canada. If you look at the upstate Vermont border, there are few towns around AT ALL. Once you get to upstate Vermont, the only thing around is a very long drive to Quebec City, a lot of empty real estate in upper Maine and a couple of towns in Canada. In upstate NY, you have fairly easy access to: Lake Champlain, Montreal (8 million people?), Ottawa (which is more of a haul, but has British influenced parliament buildings and real changing of the guard!!!! and canals where people ice skate through the center of city in winter), and there are some college towns like St Lawrence and Crain School of Music in Potsdam plus the ADKs and smaller towns, Lake Placid and Saranac Lake which both have definite character. As for the little towns you mentioned like Ellenburg, etc..........they are small. Very small. One huge school district small. Way too small for me.............They are not in the mountains either because they lie right on the St Lawrence River Valley. If you follow route 11 on the NY map from the interstate 87 west to Malone, at night you will see across Canada and will see the lights of Montreal. That is how flat that valley is. In the summer, it is cool because if you drive west to Massena and go to the huge dam there, all along the river you are next to all the St Lawrence Seaway locks and huge freighter boats from all over the world with every flag you can thing of will be about 10 yards away from you. The crew will wave to you and your kids. There is a huge dam (Robert Moses?) that gives tours and lets you walk right on top of the entire thing so you can see it. Again, not your everyday trip. I would honestly never want to live in Ellenberg, but it isn't my thing. Not big enough. If you are thinking of a land purchase though, upper Lake George is less pricey than lower Lake George and is still easy as pie access to I-87. You can definitely get deals as you move inland, but is a bit tougher to predict how long it will take you to get back to the interstate..............The roads deep in the ADK park are two laners and there are tons of sightseers on the weekends along with campers, hikers, fishermen, second home people and now more Canadian tourists because of favorable exchage rates. I cannot stress enough how cool Montreal is..............It isn't a hassle to get across and if you have your passport, the new border crossing will be completed by spring 08. Much easier. Montreal has the international fireworks festival, jazz, comedy, Italian, movie, Grand Priz and blues, Greek, French indepence day, just about any reason to have a party in the summer and close the city to walking traffic is a good reason in Montreal. I just love it there. It is like going to Europe in an afternoon or weekend without the flight and expense.............The Metro is amazing and clean and there are a couple of places where you just drive up and park in a lot, get on the metro and scoot everywhere all day/weekend, then when you are done, ride back to the lot to get your car......................A lot to be said for upstate NY.............There are really cool townships around also. Lots of farms (I was so surprised how much corn and dairy is here and of course sugar shacks in the spring with Canadian bacon and beer..........Molson and Labatts are king.........Lots of apple orchards up here. You probably remember a lot of this, but it is a very cool place..................Yes, it is cold in the winter, but at least there are tubing places around to take kids and you don't have to sit inside if you don't want to..............Maybe I am partial but I think upstate NY has it waaaaaaay over upstate Vermont. Ok, I am done for now!