Does ANYONE have any idea of what is it going to take to turn Upstate NY around? (New York: rental car, fit in)

[ckhthankgod]

I think NY should have a proposition to improve infrastructure by implementing vocational schools and programs within school districts that are extensive. If the bridge incident in Minneapolis and Katrina aren't good examples of improvements that need to be made, I don't know what is. Let's be honest, not all kids are going to college, but we don't want these kids, that are our future to go to waste. Why not get kids that are interested in a trade or vocational occupation that will help build the state up again and at the same time, creats jobs? For instance, here in Syracuse, they are trying to bring back the old Central Tech HS and schools like this could be a place where students with this interest can learn a trade that will help to build our state's infrastructure. Rochester's Edison Tech, Buffalo's Hutch Tech and Burgard Vocational, Yonkers' Saunders Tech and trades and the BOCES programs in conjunction with other school districts across the state, should be hubs of such learning and training. I think it is time for America in general to be creative in creating jobs, especially in areas like Upstate NY, where there are ares that need the help with it's infrastructure. This is an example in recent US history that could serve a basis for such a plan:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_...Administration

[honeychrome]

We don't even need Katrina and the I-35 bridge collapse for examples of the need for infrastructure improvement when we have the RT88 collapse in Unadilla in 2006!

As for what you say about kids and college, I couldn't agree more. The notion that every kid should go to college is something that was cooked up by the financial and the 'higher education' industries to increase the market for their 'products.' It was a means to sell debt to the benefit of those industries under the buzzword of opportunity. A huge number of these kids graduate from college with an education that is little more than what they should've received in high school, a pile of debt and few real career prospects that required the incurring of that debt or the years of 'education.' Most of the jobs they end up with could be done with a modest amount of on-the-job training. I was a good student in high school and in college, but I sincerely regret having gone to college where I only incurred debt finding out what I didn't want to do, being taught little I couldn't learn at the library for free and I've never had a job that my college 'education' had anything to do with. There are any number of 'trade' apprenticeships that would've served me far better. But I am ranting. There ought to be a legitimate range of opportunities from college, to trade schools to apprenticeships fully available to all students, rather than our systemic pitch that anything other than college is failure.

The WPA is an interesting model, and economically we seem to be slipping in to a situation not unlike that which gave rise to the program, but there will be fierce opposition to such a program now. It would be considered an affront to notions of the free market and private industry... and it was an expensive program, and the money to fund such a program doesn't exist now- it would have to be funded by either increased taxes on some segment of the population or increased borrowing, and the current economic situation makes borrowing problematic. Certainly the WPA and other New Deal programs (followed by the war) laid the foundation on which post-war American prosperity was built.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by honeychrome

We don't even need Katrina and the I-35 bridge collapse for examples of the need for infrastructure improvement when we have the RT88 collapse in Unadilla in 2006!

As for what you say about kids and college, I couldn't agree more. The notion that every kid should go to college is something that was cooked up by the financial and the 'higher education' industries to increase the market for their 'products.' It was a means to sell debt to the benefit of those industries under the buzzword of opportunity. A huge number of these kids graduate from college with an education that is little more than what they should've received in high school, a pile of debt and few real career prospects that required the incurring of that debt or the years of 'education.' Most of the jobs they end up with could be done with a modest amount of on-the-job training. I was a good student in high school and in college, but I sincerely regret having gone to college where I only incurred debt finding out what I didn't want to do, being taught little I couldn't learn at the library for free and I've never had a job that my college 'education' had anything to do with. There are any number of 'trade' apprenticeships that would've served me far better. But I am ranting. There ought to be a legitimate range of opportunities from college, to trade schools to apprenticeships fully available to all students, rather than our systemic pitch that anything other than college is failure.

The WPA is an interesting model, and economically we seem to be slipping in to a situation not unlike that which gave rise to the program, but there will be fierce opposition to such a program now. It would be considered an affront to notions of the free market and private industry... and it was an expensive program, and the money to fund such a program doesn't exist now- it would have to be funded by either increased taxes on some segment of the population or increased borrowing, and the current economic situation makes borrowing problematic. Certainly the WPA and other New Deal programs (followed by the war) laid the foundation on which post-war American prosperity was built.

and I thought about that in regards to the WPA too. I'm even wondering if Obama was thinking about such a program due to his idea of trying to "balance" the tax burden, which is really already occurring now, but in a lesser degree than what he is describing.

Also, I forgot about the I-88 incident and is another perfect example for our state to look at.

It is ironic that we are talking about this too, because I was reading the Syracuse Post-Standard today and a local lawyer brought up the same idea.

[jawny08]

I've lived upstate and downstate and have gained perspective on what the states problems are from both sides.

Downstate:
1) High cost of living/lack of affordable housing
2) High taxes as a result of sending farmore to DC and Albany than get back.
3) Too much competition from NJ and CT. Its hard enough to attract people and business to your metro area w/o the bloodsucking states of NJ and CT suburbs stealing them once they come.

Upstate:
1) High taxes/Albany
2) Weather
3) Inability to reinvent
4) Too many wasted assets
5) Too many people that blame NYC for their problems/lack of state unity
6) No unified plan for upstate cities
7) Lack of thriving downtowns

Upstate cities must first focus on revitalizing their downtown areas. Getting young professionals to move downtown can have a positive impact on the city as a whole.

Coming up with a plan to reinvent the area is important. Upstate cities are within 4-6 hours of NYC, Boston, Philly, Toronto, and Montreal. There is history and natural beauty that is going to waste (Niagara Falls).

Keep in mind that much of the north-central part of the country is struggling (Western PA, Ohio, MI). This can't all be blammed on NYC. Upstate has a location advantage over these places that is currently wasted

[jawny08]

One more idea.

Put together an effective marketing campaign to bring back New Yorkers that have moved (and companies). Focus on states like North Carolina and Florida. There are many New Yorkers that moved and aren't happy(just look on these boards). Targeting these people may help to bring some of them (and their money) back. Southern states come up here to offer tax incentives for companies to move. NY needs to go down their and do the same. Wake UP NY!

[JiminCT]

Blaming NYC is the most annoying. Ask Salamida or Hoffman hot dogs or Wegmans if NYC is hindering their business. There needs to be people with innovation...and the braindrain isnt ONLY because of upstate ny jobs situation. A lot of people want to see something else...and like new england, people get very sick and tired of winter.

[OCNYISHOME]

It is NY State Government that has and continues to kill the upstate economy.............high taxes all around......the dominance and lack if innovation of the teachers and other public unions.........all result in a poor business climate..therefore limited jobs...high cost of living..... Watch this year....the stage has already been set for the state to increase taxes.........what will they get???? More public employees....less tax revenues...and an continues exodus from the state........Afterall just work for the state for 10 yrs...then get full medical for life.......a marketing program..........other then being hired by some gov entity ...give me a break.....the upstate ongoing recession will continue as long as the gov stifles development by increased spending and the taxes to support same

[Jeromeville]

Let us stop blaming Upstate's problems on the weather. People have been living and prospering in Upstate NY for 10,000 years or more.

For one thing we ought to simplify the politics and have a single chamber legislature. The only things that senators and assemblypeople do is play games with each other. There is no reason whatsoever to have two houses except to protect petty political fiefdoms, at the expense of long range planning.

Too much dealing with corporations, not enough helping of small businesses.

Too many "big ideas," not enough discipline and follow-through.

A ridiculous inferiority complex on top of it (why should we be ashamed that we have 4 seasons and an abundance of fresh water, decent if worn-out public transportation systems, etc?) Someone explain to me what is so great about dried up deserts like Vegas and exurban sprawl in California. And having to have your air conditioning on 75% of the year.

Believe me the bad economy will bring a lot of those kids crawling back to Mom and Dad's boring old upstate towns. In bad times, a lot of people return home to be with family. When they realize how much better the school systems and social services are, some people will be beating down the doors to get back here.

[cheese9988]

I have asked myself this very question, everyone knows what the problems are. To much tax and government.

What are WE as citizens going to do about the problem?

[jawny08]

I think that a high-speed rail project from NYC-ALB-SYR-ROC-BUF-TOR, along with a comprehensive upstate tourism plan would be a great way to kick start upstate's economy.

Albany could demand that NY workers are paid to build the system, and that western NY steel is used. I believe there are TWO train factories in the state that would see business as a result (Bombardier in Auburn and Kawasaki in Yonkers). This would help bring NYC tourism $ upstate and bring money from Canada to both upstate and NYC. It may also be part of a Niagara Falls turnaround.

NY has to do more to create economic synergy between upstate & downstate and NY and Canada. The 2 largest cities in the country are within 2 hours from the state's border.