Does ANYONE have any idea of what is it going to take to turn Upstate NY around? (New York: lawyers, house)

[cheese9988]

A high speed train just from Buffalo to NYC could help, although I don't think it would turn upstate NY around. People as far as Chicago, Pittsburg and Toronto hop on in Buffalo and get a trip to NYC.

Alstom also makes electronics for trains, they have a factory around Rochester.

I seriously think the best thing the state could do is lower taxes and take a step back from business, let it do its own thing. Albany and the city council have thier fingers in everything.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by jawny08

I think that a high-speed rail project from NYC-ALB-SYR-ROC-BUF-TOR, along with a comprehensive upstate tourism plan would be a great way to kick start upstate's economy.

Albany could demand that NY workers are paid to build the system, and that western NY steel is used. I believe there are TWO train factories in the state that would see business as a result (Bombardier in Auburn and Kawasaki in Yonkers). This would help bring NYC tourism $ upstate and bring money from Canada to both upstate and NYC. It may also be part of a Niagara Falls turnaround.

NY has to do more to create economic synergy between upstate & downstate and NY and Canada. The 2 largest cities in the country are within 2 hours from the state's border.

High speed rail is a great idea but heres some other factors to consider.

- include a car rental office at the major rail stations. Regardless what you think most people need to get to a location outside the local public transit routes. Buisness travelers do not have time to waste and vacationers need the ability to travel out of the area to their destination.

- If built, let a NY contractor compete fairly for the contract. Dictating state residents only will triple the price. Same with materials supplied if you dictate the source then there will be no mercy on the pricing.

- Most likely Amtrack would become the service provider because the cost to operate would be prohibitive for quite a few years.

Until designed and built some of these things could be implemented especially the rental car services/connection with stations. Also how many stations appear to be somethng you want to travel through? do they need updating?

[OCNYISHOME]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

High speed rail is a great idea but heres some other factors to consider.

- include a car rental office at the major rail stations. Regardless what you think most people need to get to a location outside the local public transit routes. Buisness travelers do not have time to waste and vacationers need the ability to travel out of the area to their destination.

- If built, let a NY contractor compete fairly for the contract. Dictating state residents only will triple the price. Same with materials supplied if you dictate the source then there will be no mercy on the pricing.

- Most likely Amtrack would become the service provider because the cost to operate would be prohibitive for quite a few years.

Until designed and built some of these things could be implemented especially the rental car services/connection with stations. Also how many stations appear to be somethng you want to travel through? do they need updating?

SILLY...SILLY ...SILLY Pardon the sarcasm but your calling for more investment that gives us more gov expenditure. That means greater taxes Take a look at Utica area. Plenty of infrastructure but the major employers have all left for more friendly enviorns for their employees and theirselves. Just across the state border i paid 35 cents less per gallon gas.......we just pay more taxes here.......I love it and it is my home but in time the state will force me out. Plenty of folks would like to return from the south but the costs are prohibitive on business and the individual

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by OCNYISHOME

SILLY...SILLY ...SILLY Pardon the sarcasm but your calling for more investment that gives us more gov expenditure. That means greater taxes Take a look at Utica area. Plenty of infrastructure but the major employers have all left for more friendly enviorns for their employees and theirselves. Just across the state border i paid 35 cents less per gallon gas.......we just pay more taxes here.......I love it and it is my home but in time the state will force me out. Plenty of folks would like to return from the south but the costs are prohibitive on business and the individual

I do support it as a great way to travel but most of what I mentioned can be done for little to no investment and would make train travel a viable option. Your Utica example is a perfect example of why buisnesses go elsewhere. Between the Taxes and the Unions the cost can be up to double of doing buisness here in the south. It doesn't matter how great the schools, living, roads etc are if a company has to pay a third or more to produce their product they will go elsewhere.

[jawny08]

I don't think a high-speed train will turn upstate around. It is just a suggestion for how to take bring more money and business from the East Coast and Canada if such a system were built (while helping create jobs). Federal funding would be a must. DC takes so much money from NY it would be a nice way of giving back, and may be possible under the next admin.

I think that cutting state taxes and spending, creating a plan to attract young professionals to upstate's downtown areas, a plan to attract more East Coast/Canadian tourism dollars, and a plan for Niagara Falls are most important for an upstate turnaround.

[NicePolishBoy]

Originally Posted by honeychrome

As for what you say about kids and college, I couldn't agree more. The notion that every kid should go to college is something that was cooked up by the financial and the 'higher education' industries to increase the market for their 'products.'

I have to disagree with aspects of this statement. The faculty of colleges do not promote this idea. The "should" has more to do with many parents who expect their kids to go to college when they shouldn't, and then they complain if college isn't a diploma mill. I'm not saying all, but this is a serious problem.

There are colleges out there not doing a good job, but most I know give back what students puts into it.

It is true that SUNY is not keeping up with competitors. High taxes aren't met by good salaries and teaching loads. More classes means less time with students. Faculty aren't choosing to go to SUNY. SUNY's graduate programs don't compare well with Midwest state universities, so graduate students finish and stay there instead of NY. That's brain drain.

[honeychrome]

Originally Posted by NicePolishBoy

I have to disagree with aspects of this statement. The faculty of colleges do not promote this idea. The "should" has more to do with many parents who expect their kids to go to college when they shouldn't, and then they complain if college isn't a diploma mill. I'm not saying all, but this is a serious problem.

There are colleges out there not doing a good job, but most I know give back what students puts into it.

It is true that SUNY is not keeping up with competitors. High taxes aren't met by good salaries and teaching loads. More classes means less time with students. Faculty aren't choosing to go to SUNY. SUNY's graduate programs don't compare well with Midwest state universities, so graduate students finish and stay there instead of NY. That's brain drain.

Well first, I didn't say faculty, I said "financial and 'higher education industries.'" Faculty is in many cases only a modest part of the staff of a college or university. And where did this parental expectation of a college education for all children come from? It didn't spring like a virgin birth from the minds of all these parents- it is a notion that has been promoted to parents, sold as a necessary ingredient in 'getting ahead.' Well, now that ingredient is proving to almost certainly guarantee debt, but comes with little or no guarantee of 'getting ahead.' I'm quite sure that the vast majority of faculty at American schools are nothing but noble and honorable in their intentions and desire to provide a quality, useful education to all their students. I'm not so sure that a corporate educational entity cares about much more than the bottom line and a continuous stream of customers. The business is not about selling a superior product, just selling the idea of a superior product, or selling the idea of the need for the product.

[OCNYISHOME]

Originally Posted by honeychrome

Well first, I didn't say faculty, I said "financial and 'higher education industries.'" Faculty is in many cases only a modest part of the staff of a college or university. And where did this parental expectation of a college education for all children come from? It didn't spring like a virgin birth from the minds of all these parents- it is a notion that has been promoted to parents, sold as a necessary ingredient in 'getting ahead.' Well, now that ingredient is proving to almost certainly guarantee debt, but comes with little or no guarantee of 'getting ahead.' I'm quite sure that the vast majority of faculty at American schools are nothing but noble and honorable in their intentions and desire to provide a quality, useful education to all their students. I'm not so sure that a corporate educational entity cares about much more than the bottom line and a continuous stream of customers. The business is not about selling a superior product, just selling the idea of a superior product, or selling the idea of the need for the product.

Given that the average college student does not have the overall knowledge level of a 1960's highschool grad, it has been a great selling proposition...............

[OCNYISHOME]

So honeycrome.........increased gov investment [ translation = higher taxes], more expensive energy, and protectionism in foreign trade is the answer????????????? I am sure that will stem the population exodus. Our governors answer to the current fiscal crisis.........increase taxes........in one of the most expensive states to reside.............with more then 50% of the workforce publically employed your solution will surely hit home w/ applause. How about gov getting out of the way and allowing private money to invest..........It is frustrating to see how many folks trust gov investment as the answer.........they have done such a great job till now...........look at the Albany/Schnectedy[spelling?] area...........nothing they have done....including expanding the gov work force can counter the shrinkage of GE

[OCNYISHOME]

Originally Posted by JiminCT

The govt sector needs to be SLASHED dramatically. New York has a local, county, and state layer of government. Consolidate the local municipalities to a county style government and reduce duplication. At the state level....there needs to be a healthy cleaning of all the albany bureacratic backwater. Layoffs should be a MAJOR part of dealing with the state....its the waste, pension, and retiree health expenses that are killing NYS.

Upstate NY has a problem of locale....yes its beautiful in some areas, but the winter climate is a HUGE albatross. Most people who arent from upstate NY have no idea what its like in the winter...and yes, it drives many away. Upstate NY needs to take advanatage of its geography....food products and a focal point for Canadian businesses with US operations. The latter could be utilized....

And of course organic farming...that could be a big opportunity for upstate.

The folks who are not worried re the current economic downturn are the public employees. In a declining housing market, they are the shoppers. They are secure, trudging on towards retirement, and looking forward to their next pay raise. My father is 85......been retired since 55......state pension and great medical. How many like him are out there...........he has almost been non-productive for a period as long as he was employed. Two friends who recently retired from the state will net more dollars retired and unemployed then they did as active workers. Your point is well taken but as a voting block their "keep things the same" is inadvertantly focused on security rather then production. If you can continue to profit in a secure enviornment why risk that with change. They know the change you propose will only lessen that security...and eventually their income.