Does ANYONE have any idea of what is it going to take to turn Upstate NY around? (New York: school, taxi)

[I'minformed2]

Wait...NOBODY who left NY ever comes back? What am I and and my family...a figment of my own imagination? everything I have ever known is a lie!!!

So I don't exactly see how maporboy and others who have left get this notion that they know more about the way things are in NY than those of us who actually live here? Are you magic? Do you have some telepathic bond to NYS that gives you insight into absolutely everything that goes on here?

I think, that for WHATEVER reason you feel the need to validate your own life decision in moving. You have to make it look like YOU are right and everyone else is WRONG. FYI nobody really cares what you do. If you moved away and are happy about it and happy where you are that's good for you. So why do you feel the need to come onto this forum and talk about how bad it is in NY when you aren't even here anymore? SOMEBODY, any one of the trolls on this forum, please provide and answer to that question?!?!

[deno088]

"Yet another post by you full of BS and unfounded assumptions and claims. Your only valid point is about the cost of doing business caused by unions/special interest, which nobody on here really denies."

You forgot to mention lack of business.

"Your first BS claim that nobody wants to move back BS. Do you have any evidence to support this? Or are you just passing off your biased opinion as fact?"

I do. It is scary (for NY) how many people there are in Charlotte from all parts of NY. It is close to impossible to go into a business or neighborhood without finding a few people from NY. Every other day I meet someone that comments on how much better life is down here and how bad it was in NY.

"Your post about homegrown talent is also false. There is no shortage of skilled workers in this area."

Did you forget about "brain drain". Just google it, Upstate NY is built into the definition.


"Your claim about equity is also BS. I bought a house in East Irondequoit in around 2005 and the value has rose each year. If you look at home values in the area, they have slowly risen. I could sell my home today for a profit, in this garbage market, and I haven't had it for that long."

Google-- Northeast homeowners delusional--

"Your claim about the out migration WAY outnumbering the immigration is false. Population, in this area at least, has been stagnant to having a very small decline(around 1% since 2000). I would not call that a large population loss as you are trying to say. You keep talking about population loss since 1990. If you have bothered to look at census figures, the area was gaining population until the late 90s."

This is the big one. People are still reproducing in NY. That is why the census numbers are (for now) deceiving. Again your problem is brain drain. And to go a step further answer these questions. What class of people leave NY? Is it the poor? I don't think so. Who has more kids? Rich and middle class or is it the poor? Do you understand what I am saying?

"You are assuming that people here can't make a decent living which is 100% false. There is no shortage of people living comfortably around here. Is the business climate good? Not by any means, but the standard of living here is nowhere near to what you are trying to claim. There are plenty of young people with decent jobs."

You said it. The business climate is terrible. One of my memories of NY is a lot of miserable people.


"I would not be living better if I were to move to a more desirable city. If I were to go to a place like SF, NYC, or Boston I would be living paycheck to paycheck to keep my current standard of living. I may be able to have more money in my pocket if I were to move to SC or the sunbelt, but I despise those places. Having a little extra money in my pocket would mean nothing if I was miserable."

I cannot believe you are being completely honest with this one.

[boomvang]

You would think that you S.C. transplants would be so busy enjoying your newfound bliss that you would have better things to do than troll on a N.Y. board. Some of us like it here, and nothing you say will change that. No place is perfect, not even down south, Y'all.

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by boomvang

You would think that you S.C. transplants would be so busy enjoying your newfound bliss that you would have better things to do than troll on a N.Y. board. Some of us like it here, and nothing you say will change that. No place is perfect, not even down south, Y'all.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! If you are living such a great life down there...why in the hell are you still posting on the NY forum!?!

If these people can't get it through their thick skulls that some people like living in NY and not everyone is miserable here, and that it is their OPINION that it is so much better in the south...then I guess when they left the region, it was actually considered a "brain gain"

Yes, I could have lower taxes and warmer weather if I lived in North Carolina...the only catch would be... I would be living in North Carolina! Forget the fact that the cost of living in Raleigh and Charlotte is actually higher than it is in Buffalo or Rochester; even if it weren't I am happier here, and that does not make me any less intelligent or "right" than people who are happier in NC. OF COURSE people you meet in NC who have relocated from NY are going to say they like it better! That's why they live there! That doesn't mean that everyone who lives in NY would be happier in NC. It really isn't that tough of a concept and I can't believe these trolls can't comprehend it!

[garmin239]

"I do. It is scary (for NY) how many people there are in Charlotte from all parts of NY. It is close to impossible to go into a business or neighborhood without finding a few people from NY. Every other day I meet someone that comments on how much better life is down here and how bad it was in NY."

And do you have any official polls on how many people would never move back? Or are you just talking out of you a$$ like the other guy? If you want to bring personal anecdotes into the equation, I have traveled to the Carolinas for work several times and have run into countless northerners that had plans on moving from the Carolinas because it wasn't the paradise they thought it was. Some wanting to move back home, some wanting to try another place.


"Did you forget about "brain drain". Just google it, Upstate NY is built into the definition."

Yes and if you actually paid attention to these brain drain stories in the news, you would see when they actually took a look at the numbers, there wasn't an actual brain drain going on. There is still a highly educated work force in the area. The problem was a brain gain, which would make more sense due to the stagnant population.




"Google-- Northeast homeowners delusional--"

There have been several articles, some posted on here on how real estate prices in this area have kept a steady increase. There have been recent home sales in my own neighborhood that show home prices increasing. And I live in an older neighborhood.



"This is the big one. People are still reproducing in NY. That is why the census numbers are (for now) deceiving. Again your problem is brain drain. And to go a step further answer these questions. What class of people leave NY? Is it the poor? I don't think so. Who has more kids? Rich and middle class or is it the poor? Do you understand what I am saying?"

What you are attempting to say is that the poor are reproducing in such large numbers that they are offsetting the middle and upper class leaving. Complete BS. If people were leaving in the large numbers that you claim they are, the poor would have to be reproducing like rabbits. Again I'll mention your ignorance on the brain drain issue; its not happening like the news previously claimed. They took a look at the numbers and there was still a sizable educated work force in the area. The D&C ran stories on this last year.



"You said it. The business climate is terrible. One of my memories of NY is a lot of miserable people."

Maybe because you made others around you miserable? I run into plenty of people that are enjoying life.

[jawny08]

My brother moved from upstate NY to Charlotte for a year or so. Not because Charlotte is good but it offered low cost of living w/ a warmer climate. He said there was nothing unique about Charlotte and was a very generic suburban style place to live and no longer lives there. Keep in mind that the people that are complaining about NY are the people that left not the people that like it. I have also found that people upstate have a negative opinion towards the state in general.

The fact that NYC is still by far the largest city in the country even with the ridiculous cost of living says something. It is hard to keep NY taxes low when southern states get much of the money the state sends to the federal gov't.

Having said that many things need to be done to make the state more competitive. In the NY area gov't jobs are looked at as a golden goose. Counties like Westchester and Nassau have high property taxes because you have a different town every mile or so each with their own government and highly paid workers. Consolidation is a must for these towns.

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by moparboy

One more idea.

jawny08 wrote:

"Put together an effective marketing campaign to bring back New Yorkers that have moved (and companies). Focus on states like North Carolina and Florida. There are many New Yorkers that moved and aren't happy(just look on these boards). Targeting these people may help to bring some of them (and their money) back. Southern states come up here to offer tax incentives for companies to move. NY needs to go down their and do the same. Wake UP NY!"

Here's what your governor thinks:

Paterson calls for dramatic budget cuts | democratandchronicle.com | Democrat and Chronicle

You raise some valid points, however, the cost of doing business in NY has gone up so much, international companies have no desire to locate new operations in NY, or, for that matter, any union-heavy blue states.

You couldn't pay myself, nor the hundreds of thousands of NYers whom have moved away within the last 30-40 years or so, enough to move back. Try opening up a small business in NY, and see how much of a struggle it is to keep the doors open over a 5-10 year period.

Now, the Rochester boosters in this forum agree with my views on these issues, yet they can't look past their rose colored glasses to see just how bad it is, there. I find it funny how they contradict themselves from thread to thread. Mind you, I get on these forums about once every 4 mos., and it's this easy to notice. So, Rochester boosters, where's all the bravado you folks were full of a year ago? You blather about how great Upstate is, yet now you drone on about the truths which folks like myself, have been harping on, for years.

A shortage of skilled trades and technical workers in a metro like Rochester, is nothing to be proud of, nor does it show anything positive, despite what these delusional types may spew. It shows that:

A) Nobody wants to move to there.
B) Not enough home grown talent, which means, too many are going into government, health care, non-profit, etc., jobs. Perhaps not working at all. Did I mention tens of thousands of experienced technical workers and skilled trades folks have moved away since 1990? Tens of thousands of new college graduates, too?
C) The cost of doing business there, combined with little to no competition within the labor pool, combine to drive wages down to below U.S. DOL averages. So, outsiders look at that decent $175K house in W. Irondequoit (which they"ll never get any equity out of), and its $8K+/yr. in taxes, and think twice about moving to Rochester. Same goes for Syracuse and Buffalo. Ya can't afford a joint like that on $80K/yr., and have a decent quality of life or standard of living, with how high everything else is these days, in NY.

The outmigration way outnumbers the inmigration, year after year. The only pop. group which keeps the numbers from falling off the cliff are immigrants from the Third World. This has been cited in several newspaper articles across NY State, and several studies done by think tanks. Otherwise, Upstate would be losing 100K population per annum. The educated/skilled and retired are moving out, well paying jobs are being lost/new growth is stagnant or non-existent, and NY keeps circling the drain.

These facts, coupled with a $60B state debt, looming $40B+ deficits over the next 4 years, and the tanking of the stock market, spell doom for NY. The 700+ authorities are in the red by $80B. The fiscal situation at the state and local levels (to include the overburdensome school tax situation), will surely put Upstate over the proverbial cliff, if it hasn't already.

NY is run by special interests, period. The unions and sundry other interests which ensure NY stays uncompetetive, keeps NY from prospering and wealth from being created. The labor laws, trial lawyers, workman's comp costs, etc., kep businesses from growing, new ones from sprouting up, and out of state firms from locating there. Sorry, GE ain't gonna move their plants from SC to NY, same goes for Timken, Cooper, Garlock, BMW, Honeywell, Lockheed, etc. Note how most international manufacturing which has located here in the U.S., has done so in Sun Belt states. So have other international companies within other industries. Google, Amazon, BMW, and some firm I can't think of the name of, are opening/expanding, here, within the next several months. The one I can't think of is opening a 9K employee warehousing operation in a poor area of the state, down near the deep water port of Charleston.

To see the delusional posts on here make me shake my head and wonder if these folks are serious...

I see several are college students or recent graduates. Yeah, the real world of Rochester is about to smack you in the head. Get out while you can. Don't drink the kool aid...

Got some "state the obvious" for you: the entire nation is in dire straits; NY just got a head start on it when the "Run to the South/Sun" campaign took off in the last 10 years or so....do you honestly believe other areas of the country will remain strong when a considerable amount of the nation is stagnating? You'll just get hit later and be recovering well after the likes of the Northeast have either swam or sunk....

The country is tethered together economically and if your South is opening new factories producing products that a good part of the depressed aren't buying guess what? THOSE companies will cut back/fold and so on and so on and so on......gloating that some parts of the country are rising while more are sinking is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face: you have only shifted the problem, not corrected it.:

It is not pretty out there and the term depression rolls around my head more often than not....we should all be joining together as a country not knocking areas as wastelands....

Side note: the city of Toledo has begun a turn around as a leader in solar panel production...

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by garmin239

"I do. It is scary (for NY) how many people there are in Charlotte from all parts of NY. It is close to impossible to go into a business or neighborhood without finding a few people from NY. Every other day I meet someone that comments on how much better life is down here and how bad it was in NY."

And do you have any official polls on how many people would never move back? Or are you just talking out of you a$$ like the other guy? If you want to bring personal anecdotes into the equation, I have traveled to the Carolinas for work several times and have run into countless northerners that had plans on moving from the Carolinas because it wasn't the paradise they thought it was. Some wanting to move back home, some wanting to try another place.


"Did you forget about "brain drain". Just google it, Upstate NY is built into the definition."

Yes and if you actually paid attention to these brain drain stories in the news, you would see when they actually took a look at the numbers, there wasn't an actual brain drain going on. There is still a highly educated work force in the area. The problem was a brain gain, which would make more sense due to the stagnant population.




"Google-- Northeast homeowners delusional--"

There have been several articles, some posted on here on how real estate prices in this area have kept a steady increase. There have been recent home sales in my own neighborhood that show home prices increasing. And I live in an older neighborhood.



"This is the big one. People are still reproducing in NY. That is why the census numbers are (for now) deceiving. Again your problem is brain drain. And to go a step further answer these questions. What class of people leave NY? Is it the poor? I don't think so. Who has more kids? Rich and middle class or is it the poor? Do you understand what I am saying?"

What you are attempting to say is that the poor are reproducing in such large numbers that they are offsetting the middle and upper class leaving. Complete BS. If people were leaving in the large numbers that you claim they are, the poor would have to be reproducing like rabbits. Again I'll mention your ignorance on the brain drain issue; its not happening like the news previously claimed. They took a look at the numbers and there was still a sizable educated work force in the area. The D&C ran stories on this last year.



"You said it. The business climate is terrible. One of my memories of NY is a lot of miserable people."

Maybe because you made others around you miserable? I run into plenty of people that are enjoying life.

Bravo sir

[archtopguitar]

The Govonor's doing all the wrong things. instead of cutting the star program he needs to make it 4 times what it is now ! Tax food (get some of that welfare money back) and cut welfare by 40 % and drive them out of the state instead of the working productive people.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by jawny08

My brother moved from upstate NY to Charlotte for a year or so. Not because Charlotte is good but it offered low cost of living w/ a warmer climate. He said there was nothing unique about Charlotte and was a very generic suburban style place to live and no longer lives there. Keep in mind that the people that are complaining about NY are the people that left not the people that like it. I have also found that people upstate have a negative opinion towards the state in general.

The fact that NYC is still by far the largest city in the country even with the ridiculous cost of living says something. It is hard to keep NY taxes low when southern states get much of the money the state sends to the federal gov't.

Having said that many things need to be done to make the state more competitive. In the NY area gov't jobs are looked at as a golden goose. Counties like Westchester and Nassau have high property taxes because you have a different town every mile or so each with their own government and highly paid workers. Consolidation is a must for these towns.

Right on with the government statement. Cuomo(the son) was talking about consolidation. Why do we have so many different fire, school, sewage and water districts? There has to be some consolidation of these entities to bring some of the costs down.