Secession of New York City area to form 51st state

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

In JawJah, we pay $600/yr taxes for $110k house. Y'all come down, heah!

No thanks, I lived down South in NC for 13 years; I've seen what rock bottom taxes buy you. I'll pass.

Taxes in NYS need to go down that's for sure, but unfortunately too many people see the really low taxes in the south and want them to go down to that level; which just isn't feasible.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

No thanks, I lived down South in NC for 13 years; I've seen what rock bottom taxes buy you. I'll pass.

Taxes in NYS need to go down that's for sure, but unfortunately too many people see the really low taxes in the south and want them to go down to that level; which just isn't feasible.

If government is instituted to (a) secure rights, and (b) govern by consent, what's wrong with a frugal implementation?

If you want massive socialist bureaucracies and bloated public institutions, that's not what the original contract was about.

Of course, most Americans were never informed that participation in national socialism is 100% voluntary. If it was mandatory, it would be involuntary servitude, and unconstitutional. But thanks to the propaganda ministry, most private sector employers will not hire unnumbered Americans. Yet when you ask for a copy of the law that obligates ALL AMERICANS to enroll, no one can provide it.

Welcome to the United Socialist Serfs of America.

[jpicard]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

If government is instituted to (a) secure rights, and (b) govern by consent, what's wrong with a frugal implementation?

If you want massive socialist bureaucracies and bloated public institutions, that's not what the original contract was about.

Of course, most Americans were never informed that participation in national socialism is 100% voluntary. If it was mandatory, it would be involuntary servitude, and unconstitutional. But thanks to the propaganda ministry, most private sector employers will not hire unnumbered Americans. Yet when you ask for a copy of the law that obligates ALL AMERICANS to enroll, no one can provide it.

Welcome to the United Socialist Serfs of America.

As demonstrated in this forum just like across America too many people are brainwashed into believing the only solution is government rather than private enterprise. Thus we pay the price with the loss of our freedoms for their ignorance that services must come from government.

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by NintendoTogepi

What is so bad about the climate?

I can't understand this new trend in the U.S.
Heaven forbid, it might be cloudy sometimes, or you may even get SNOW!

Not all of us are snowbirds. If it never ever snowed again in my lifetime, I would be ecstatic.

Cloudy sometimes? we haven't had sunshine in a week. We've had rain for the last 5 days and we're supposed to have it 5 of the next 7 days.

This isn't a new trend. I've wanted out of NY since high school and it wasn't a possibility until now. I will be moving to the South in Spring 2010 no matter what. I was supposed to move last October, but we decided to stay put because the economy and housing market here started really going on the decline. We will leave next year no matter what even if we make 2 cents on our house. We are done.

You can keep the clouds, snow, and taxes!

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

I'll use my example again....if you think Upstate NY has a harsh climate....try taking a look at Minneapolis or Chicago (Which while not having as much snow...have much colder temps in the winter, and are much hotter/more humid in the summer...with a less beautiful fall in between). What defines harsh weather anyways? I think the intensly hot and oppresivly humid summers they have in NC (where again, I lived for 13 years and is now THE hotbed for relocation way ahead of any other state) were pretty extrme and kept a lot of people couped up in the house all SUMMER in the AC. Is it less "harsh" to hide in the A/C durring summer than to hide in the heat durring winter? And in NC the highs durring summer that feel really hot and oppressive are just the mid to upper 90's with high humidity...making the heat index about 105-110. What about out in Nevada and Arizona where the temperature itself is 115? low 30's and bundled up to keep warm while outside (which is a typical January/February day in Rochester) is more tolerable than being unable to escape the oppresive heat when walking around outside in the summer in a "sunbelt" state IMO. We also don't have to worry about hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, or extreme drought like many of the "sunbelt" areas do either.

There's not enough money in the world for me to live in Minneapolis or Chicago. My body does not handle cold well at all. It's painful and unpleasant.

I am fine in the heat. I look forward to it! The pains in my joints are nonexistent in the heat.

I have no desire to live in the Southwest. There's nothing out there I find interesting.

I spend a great deal of time in the South every year. I have family there and visit them often.

Ummm....we do occasionally have earthquakes here...nothing major, but they do happen.

Don't kid yourself about tornadoes either. One hit 3 miles form my parents home in Saratoga County a few years back. I believe it was an F4. There have been numerous tornadoes up here as well as straight line wind damage.

We do get the outer edges of hurricanes up here. We don't normally get direct hits, but that can always change.

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by NintendoTogepi

Are you for or against this?

I'm hearing it a lot recently.

It would probably look like this:



The two areas of the state are very different. Maybe it'd be for the best.

The big problem...who keeps the name of New York, and what does the other half rename itself?

Since a federal judge recently declared that part of Staten Island belongs to New Jersey and not New York, Jersey is more than welcome to NYC. I don't know of many people upstate who would complain. Oh but you'll have to find your own water! Your water comes from Upstate. And you can take back your loser politicians...heck you can have all of them! Make sure the current moron governor goes as well. he belongs to you folks and you can keep him. Let him keep taxing you on everything under the sun.

[jaywhite]

I've lived both in NYC , Westchester and Upstate.
The residents from upstate are fooling themselves if they think NYC is a parasite. The only major industry in NY state that produces major wealth is Wall Street. Of course, the criminals in the state legislature and the fools in the Governor's mansion have done their best to ruin Wall Street.

This was from an article in the NY Times in 1999:

"Some of the upstaters' enthusiasm is based on the mistaken belief that their money is supporting New York City's welfare state. That notion has been rebutted by a number of studies, most recently from the Center for Governmental Research, a public-policy group in Rochester.
The study, released in January, found that New York City residents and businesses send Albany slightly more in taxes than they receive back in state spending. The whole metropolitan area -- the city along with Long Island and the other in-state suburbs -- sends about $5 billion more upstate than it gets back, with much of that being paid by suburbanites who commute to the city."


I was going to move to the Elmira area about 20 years ago. My prospective employer sent me an article about how Elmira had the lowest housing costs in the country.

The employer did not bother to read this long article. It said in the second part, that the prices were so low , because you could not give away a house in the Elmira area. I've lived in other parts of upstate. In Sullivan county, there was a large house which my friend said the asking price was $10,000 in 1980. There are few jobs in upstate NY. I worked in Buffalo for several months and used to wait for the bus in the middle of "Downtown" . I could count the number of office buildings on one hand. Last year, there was an article by an urban expert from Harvard.

He said the reasons Buffalo, was so prosperous with a population in 1950 of 580,000 will never return . They are "Gone with the wind". To some extent the same is true for the rest of Upstate NY. I have lived in the north country for 8 months last year. There a job that paid $10 per hour was considered a good job.


Since weather has been discussed in this thread , the professor from Harvard gave weather as a major reason why upstate NY will not return to it's former status. I frankly was very surprised. It isn't just the cold. When I lived in the North country during the winter there were a number of fatal accidents due to ice and snow. If it was just a matter of temperature weather wouldn't be a factor.

I consider myself a mixture of upstater and downstater. I would love to see NY state regain it's status as the Empire State.


























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