Potsdam / Ogdensburg??? (New York, Catskill, Canton: crime, homes, unemployment)

[Mark S.]

Anyone know anything about these communities? Is one prefereable over the other?

What is the crime and safety like?

Schools?

General quality of life?

[nomoresnow]

Hi, Mark. I lived in Ogd. for 40+ years. It's a small city, but seems to have grown quite a bit since I left 8 years ago. They now have a Lowe's, and there are new businesses opening up on a regular basis. Shopping, however, is limited. Crime is, IMO, lower than most places, but you still have drug dealers, an occasional murder (every few years), breakins, etc. Ogd. Free Academy used to have a really good reputation and some great sports teams - football and basketball. Not sure where that's at these days.

Scenery can be beautiful. It's right on the St. Lawrence River and, if you're fortunate enough to have a few $$, a home on the river is where you want to be (taxes are quite high for riverfront property, though).

Potsdam is a college town, thereby with more activities. Crane School of Music has some wonderful concerts throughout the season. But you have to be willing to put up with the college town atmosphere. It's more of a white collar town than Ogd.

Where are you living currently?

[Mark S.]

Thanks for the input!

Originally Posted by nomoresnow

Where are you living currently?

Washington State in the Seattle/Tacoma area. We hate it. Beautiful, beautiful country, but the outrageous cost of living, deteriorating neighborhoods, growing crime, urban sprawl, and traffic have us fed up. We want out.

Drugs are everywhere these days. Can't get away from them. But are they a problem in the Ogdenburg/Potsdam area? By that I mean is there a gang presence in the schools and/or neighborhoods? Are there lots of thefts and break-ins resulting from junkies financing their habit?

Are there any particular parts of town to avoid? Any to recommend?

How are the public schools?

[nomoresnow]

Gosh, Mark, I wish I could help you more, but I've been away for 8 years, and a lot can happen in that length of time.

I'd say that there is a "good" amount of drug activity going on, unfortunately. I don't know about gang-related activity. I don't think it's a major issue. You need to know that Northern New York is a lower-income area - not a lot of upper middle class. Don't get me wrong. I still love the area, and the people there are very good and very caring people. It is blue collar, as I had mentioned. You won't find any Macy dept. stores or Starbucks. Just good-hearted people who work hard.

You don't have a lot of choice for schools. It all depends where you live. The kids are assigned to the schools in the neighborhood. For the most part, the teachers care and, since they're your neighbors, they get involved. There's only one middle school and one high school, and they're connected, but they're good schools. There is one small Catholic school which goes from K thru 6 grades, if I'm not mistaken.

While the diversity is changing, it's mainly a white, Christian area. You will see a number of Amish buggies in town, as there are a couple of small Amish communities in the vacinity.

It's a fairly small town, divided in two by the Oswegatchie River. One side is traditionally the lower/blue collar class section, which would be the side to the west of the river. The other side has the business district, the high school, and the more expensive homes. (I'm going to get into trouble over this next comment, but here goes.) However, you will find a very stately, well-kept home right next to a falling-down shack.

What draws you to Ogdensburg, if I may ask?

I meant to mention...altho I don't believe it happens on a nightly basis, I know that breakins do occur due to drug habits. About 13 years ago, my grandmother was a victim of that sort of thing. Like anywhere else you just have to be cautious.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by nomoresnow

You need to know that Northern New York is a lower-income area - not a lot of upper middle class. Don't get me wrong. I still love the area, and the people there are very good and very caring people. It is blue collar, as I had mentioned. You won't find any Macy dept. stores or Starbucks. Just good-hearted people who work hard.

Sounds like my kind of place. If I never see another Starbuck's, it won't bother me a bit.

Originally Posted by nomoresnow

What draws you to Ogdensburg, if I may ask?

We're desperate to get out of expensive, crowded, crime-ridden Washington State. We've been researching various relocation possibilities. So far, our best bets are a few sites in Maine, a couple in New Hampshire and Vermont, and northern New York. We're just wanting to get back to the smalltown lifestyle to raise our kids.

I don't mind if there are no trendy restaurants or fancy night clubs. Don't care for them much myself. But we don't want quiet, safe neighborhoods, decent schools, and a community where we feel like we can be a part and know our neighbors.

Originally Posted by nomoresnow

I meant to mention...altho I don't believe it happens on a nightly basis, I know that breakins do occur due to drug habits. About 13 years ago, my grandmother was a victim of that sort of thing. Like anywhere else you just have to be cautious.

True enough.

Meth in particular is a nationwide problem right now. I don't know anywhere that isn't having this problem.

Thanks very much for your help!

[Pidgett]

Hi Mark S,

Northern New York, and all the rest of Upstate New York away from the big cities, in general, is a FANTASTIC area to live in based on your values that you have posted in several of these forums. As a native of the state of Maine, whose wife hails from the Adirondacks, not terribly far from the Potsdam/Ogdensburg area BTW, I can attest to the peaceful and fulfilling quality of life that one can enjoy in the rural/small-town areas of Northern New England and New York State. IMO, although it officially is not, New York State is the "seventh New England state!" With the exception of the NYC/Long Island/Suburban Metro region--"downstate," NYS is a quiet, pretty area of rolling hills, woodlands, forests, lakes, and, in the Adirondacks and Catskills, rugged, forest-covered mountains, cold, remote rivers and pristine lakes, all comprising the biggest wilderness area east of the Mississippi River at 10,000 square miles , which is roughly the equivalent of the entire state of Vermont with only 1/6th of that state's population, which is very sparse for the eastern half of our nation.

Here are some of the pros and cons of Potsdam/Ogdensburg:

Pros:

Very safe with hardly any significant crime. (Mostly petty theft. Bar fights/ domestic assaults/ drug dealing are occasional. Murders are very rare.)

Good, solid work ethic of the locals. They are usually friendly in a quiet, reserved way which is something you may have to get used to if you are used to the typical extroverted, glib norm that you find elsewhere away from New England, especially the South, Texas and So. California. Taciturn, but once they take a shining to you, they're REAL deep friends who will not think twice about rushing to your aid if you are broken down on the road in -35 degree weather! They may gripe, they may grumble, but they'll do it!

Generally attractive villages--with some exceptions as Nomoresnow has pointed out.

A spirited, college-town atmosphere in Potsdam and in nearby Canton, which you should seriously consider also. These two towns are home to St. Lawrence University and Clarkson U, both prestigious world-class institutions.

Great scenery outside the villages in the surrounding countryside.

Wonderful hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, boating, swimming, snowmobiling nearby.

No traffic. Ever.

Great summer weather, especially in these towns, due to their location in the St. Lawrence Valley, which is sheltered from the nearby cloudier, rainier Adirondacks. As a result of the "rainshadow effect" caused by the 'Dacks, P'dam/O'burg have more sunshine in the summer and are a bit warmer, too. BTW, all this with low humidity and never, ever above the low 90's. Mostly 70's and low 80's as highs. Lows are in the comfortable-for-sleeping-or-stargazing 50's.

Although there are big-box stores in large plazas, the downtowns have small mom & pops, bookshops, limited, but good restaurants, especially in P'dam/Canton. O'burg less so.

Very good schools and infrastructure.

Ottawa and Montreal are a few hours away, if you need an occasional big-city fix.

And now the cons:

Long, brutal winters. If you like -10, every winter for a few days, -20 6 out of 10 winters, or even -30 once every five years, then it's not a con Don't let anybody fool you. Winter is the longest season in these parts, lasting from November to early April most years. The upside? Not as cold and definitely a lot less snow than the Adirondacks immediately to the south. Also, this area is NOT in the famous "lake-effect" snow belt, so as a result, the snow here is a piece of cake to shovel/blow/drive in. Total yearly snowfall is typically around 50 to 80 inches per year, very low by upstate NY standards. Conversely, the ADKs and the lake-effect belts just to the south, southwest, and southeast of P'dam/O'burg/Canton get around 150 to 275 inches a year

Economically depressed; 6 to 9% unemployment most months. Yeah, unfortunately, paradise has this sore-spot to contend with. For many years, this area has languished in the doldrums. It is a cryin' shame and a national, not just state-wide, disgrace!!! After all, the area is drop-dead beautiful, the people are the salt-of-the-earth types and the infrastructure is top-notch all with a major, world-class shipping lane/port along the Seaway. All this geographical and human resource is under-performing, but it is ready and in-place if better economic conditions were to happen. I should, however, point out that the fair economy is relative compared to the rest of the USA and New York. At least it is fair and not poor as is the case with southern Appalachia where I presently--and I use this term loosely--reside. (I can't wait to move to Vermont or New York State later this year.) I am in southwest West Virginia. I might as well be in a third-world nation, which it resembles in part, but that is for another post and forum.

High taxes. Yes, you get great schools and well-maintained roads for what you pay, but still! This is a burden that all upstaters bare. Unlike the NYC area, this area doesn't have the population or industrial/retail profuseness that offsets property taxes.

Bureaucratic dysfunction. NYS is legendary for governmental bickering and its inscrutible old-boy-network. Google for more info. Then have a stiff drink afterwards, and make it a double.


Well, Mark, I hope I have been helpful to you. Other areas that you have mentioned you are looking into are very similar in profile to P'dam/O'burg. Vermont, in the Burlington area especially, has a better economy overall. But it is more expensive, especially housing costs. Too, there are more flatlanders in Vermont vs northern NY that have exerted control over the local population which has caused a suppressed, seething resentment by many long-time natives. There is a tension that one can feel, no matter how subsurface and subtle. And "us vs them" which is very unsettling, IMO.

Good luck wherever it is you ultimately relocate to. You won't regret it!!

[Mark S.]

Fantastic info, Pidget. Thanks a million.

I'd actually put long, cold winters in the "Pro" column, but that's just me.