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Old 09-10-2007, 03:24 PM
2 posts, read 12,215 times
Reputation: 12


BHCW and JSN, you're misunderstanding me a little here.

a) I'm not the least bit conflicted, if I were, I'd have never moved here. I did my research, thanks, I knew exactly what Andes did and didn't have. We missed the turbulence regarding the turbines but were well aware of the issues surrounding them. Like I said, I did my research. And thanks for the tips on how not to "alienate" myself. I wasn't actually worried about that, but thanks just the same.

b) Oh, Geez! I'm not proposing we BUILD a Price Chopper, or even a hardware store or a shake shake! Nothing needs building here, BUILDINGS we have plenty of; or, if not plenty, then "several"! Lots of Main Street Andes is zoned for commercial use, and some of it is on the market right now. Some of it has been so for quite awhile. I'm hoping someone with cash will do something interesting with it. I wish I could, but I don't have any! I don't believe for a second that anyone really wants to put a Starbucks in Andes, but I see where you're coming from. What neither of you seem to get is that I agree with both of you.

I'm not looking for sweeping change, here, and I'm not looking for a chain store to plop down next to Cantina. I'm simply hoping that someone with a little vision and moola will open something other than another boutique or art gallery. Before I get misinterpreted again, let me state that I think the ones we have are simply lovely. I'm glad they're there. I've shopped in them. They bring Summer weekend shoppers and that's nothing but good. Some folks said to themselves "I dream of opening a little (retail business/fill in the blank) upstate where it's quiet and pretty." and they realized that dream. It's excellent.

Now I'd like it if someone said "I'm going to set-up my wine shop in one of these vacant/for sale spaces on Main Street!". Why do I wish for that? Because we don't have one. Also, because I like wine. I find it tasty. Or, "I think Andes could use a hardware/household gadget store". Why? Because we don't have one and it would be handy. Or, "What Main Street needs is a laundromat/soda fountain". That last one may not be high on the list of anyone's needs, but whatever; these are a fictitious character's upstate dreams, and not mine. Who am I to judge?

A monopoly is a monopoly is a monopoly. MTC is a monopoly and I'm sure it'll be years before that changes, if at all.

I buy local produce wherever possible, of course. Before Summer I ate corn from the Chopper that was like eating hot buttered paste. I'm glad to know there's local meat around. I assumed there was, I just don't know where it is. Someone bought the A&P, eh? Who, who? Do tell.
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:46 PM
Location: North of the Cow Pasture and South of the Wind Turbines
853 posts, read 2,576,957 times
Reputation: 2269
Ok great response lol - we will have to work this out over a game of pool at the Andes Hotel lol. (bring ur own chalk) Yes a wine shop would be very appropriate for downtown. Given NYS has some of the best wines in the country if tastings and events were to be a part of it that would be great. I was just bustin on you I think you have the right stuff in the new way.... So yeah lets have good development that fits and helps this whole region, esp the people that have been grinding here for the last 200 years.... Also as a person who has two resident-ses this might be of interest.... Your voter status is being challenged so if it is of interest to vote in Delaware County.

Alliance for Bovina - November 6, 2007 Election News

Last edited by BovinaCowHateWindTurbines; 09-10-2007 at 04:36 PM..
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:00 PM
525 posts, read 2,086,894 times
Reputation: 470
Oh my, good timing on your post, as I am here!

I guess perhaps it was a slight misunderstanding, but if you go back and read your post, without the knowledge of your own intentions, you may see what I saw. regardless, it's all good here

I understand, with your clarification, what you are saying. Heck, take a drive to New Kingston, Hobart, Bovina, Downsville......and you will see all of the same situations. Towns that once thrived-based on economies that no longer exist-and towns that survived and some that have not. Fleishmanns is the best example of that. what beuatiful homes west of town, but town proper just shows a town that once was, and is now struggling to stay alive. It saddens me deeply because this area is so great, so preserved in terms of rural character and strength, yet the world outside has shut it out.

Indeed, the ex-pats like you and me and many others, combined with the second-homeowners and the locals have kept this region alive, and will fight tooth and nail to prevent the area from failing. I think Aman and the Bellayre resort will start a trend that none of may like in the end, but they will infuse the economies and just like the North fork of LI (produce to grapes), SOMETHING needs to change to keep all of us alive. I would love love to find a way for the farmers to retool and stay alive. Organic produce (sold to the city and other cities in the area) comes to mind, but it is the investment necessary to re-tool that the farmers do not have as they have struggled for far too long. The thing is, to open a store-front in Andes you need a product that locals and weekenders will use all the time to survive and thrive. With Marg. and Delhi close enough, it is tough for a new business owner.

I agree, EVERY building in Andes should be occupied, there is such potential in Andes, it is set up for more to be there. But, even the resaurants struggle-I think Hogans is the only bus. in town that does consistently well-for obvious reasons. What is the answer? I am still working on that-every day we throw around ideas. Heck even the Andel Inn shut down on Rt. 28-and that is in between a few towns and on the major route. We do have to look at the past to be successful in the future.

Perhaps, as more of "us" move here full time we can create enough ideas, energy, and capital to find the right ideas, being mindful of the locals and the history and progressive enough to succeed. Certainly the turbine battle showed that there are plenty of caring, smart, motivated residents in this area to succeed if we work together. It is going to be slow, but I think it is coming.

Good luck and keep on keeping on!
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:10 PM
Location: Eastern NY
136 posts, read 684,085 times
Reputation: 56
If you're going to work in Kingston, perhaps you could just shop there (maybe in the Hannaford) after work, before heading back up to Andes. I'm currently trying to get a 2nd home about halfway between Roxbury and Margaretville, so I may do the same thing or else get food in the A&P in Margaretville (which didn't seem all that bad to me.)
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:01 AM
123 posts, read 566,690 times
Reputation: 36
Great thread! The good, the bad and the, uh, andes1. Lots of interesting viewpoints. We fell in love with Andes, and drove through it,but didn't get to stay.

The work issue is the most worrisome for us. My husband's an electrician and a very handy fellow, I would think he might have some opportunity with all the 2nd home folks etc. But compared to some other areas we're looking at Delaware County makes me nervous that way.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:59 AM
Location: Chicago
13 posts, read 83,885 times
Reputation: 20
Originally Posted by BovinaCowHateWindTurbines View Post
With the Aman resorts moving in Amanresorts - Luxury resort hotels Bali, India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Morocco, Thailand - home one of the most prestigious names in Luxury travel things might change. But like many areas like the Western Catskills tourism and local small business is the only way to go; albeit slowly - heck you came just in time for what is quite a renaissance for the area.

Not to hijack the thread ...

I hope that the purchase of Broadlands (nee Aknusti) by Aman does come together and ultimately is completed although interesting as a future project it is not formally recognized by the company. Right now the property simply is being held by a Los Angeles-based LLC. You have to wonder with the slowing economy if they didn't already dig themselves a hole. Paying the rumored $10M to start with is totally off the charts for the 1,950 acre estate considering it was shopped around just a few years ago at $5M - not to mention they walked away from almost doing this same deal in the late 1990's for less.

I've toured the former Gerry estate a couple of times and something had to be done or else it would've just been lost forever and the lands cut up and developed. That would have been a crime as the crumbling georgian-style manorhouse was grand and the various buildings/cottages were carefully selected for optimal setting not to mention Frederick Law Olmstead's landscape work would've been erased. The amount of money that will have to be poured into the infrastructure – from re-grading the miles of existing internal roads, water (in particular the lack of water pressure in the mansion), septic systems, upgraded power/telecom – is massive and then there is building of new structures and razing those too far gone. Conservatively it will cost another $30M, before furnishing, to make it a true world-class resort.

Not to question their business but can you really make money even in the long term with that much capital invested into a project? They likely are examining that again before they spend even $1 further into the venture. Better to write off maybe $4M in a loss if they flip it now vs. being in for $40M and bleeding red ink.

The good thing is that if the resort comes through it locks up all that acreage from being turned into who knows what - from more watershed lands (proposed once) to even dumping grounds - and gives another wealthy voice reason to protect the views and local economy from going under. Oh and paying more in taxes helps too although there is no reason to pave the roads around the estate.

I doubt however you'll get streams of people leaving a very pricy luxury resort leaving "the grounds" and entering Andes proper to buy goods and boost the economy. It just doesn't seem likely. Maybe they'll get enchanted with the area and seek to buy a vacation home but I think the area already has a healthy trade in that business already.

It's a shame that one of the more famous persons in recent years who enjoyed Andes appears to be leaving. Richard Koppenaal - RealtyUSA

Kelsey Grammer's farmhouse has been on the market for almost a year. Not likely to sell at $2.75M but maybe he's hoping Aman buys that home too

Last edited by Glimmerglass; 10-16-2007 at 08:16 AM.. Reason: couldn't get the url correctly fitted into the text
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:08 AM
525 posts, read 2,086,894 times
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Very good points Glimmer!

Not sure if you know, Bovina is having a presentation by Jim Thompson, Del Co IDA, on Oct 24th at 6 pm in the Community Hall, to discuss the Aman development. We all are anxious to hear what they say, aside from the PILOT #s which have been thrown around. Check out AllianceforBovina.com for some info, and if you are in the area, be sure to go!
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:40 PM
525 posts, read 2,086,894 times
Reputation: 470

dot org, not com, sorry
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:51 PM
Location: North of the Cow Pasture and South of the Wind Turbines
853 posts, read 2,576,957 times
Reputation: 2269
I totally agree with Glimmer, many people here seem to believe it is a done deal. I have had my doubts as to whether it would improve the "business" district of Andes.

Are you going to go to the Andes Hotel or Hogans when you have 5 star amenities back at the resort? And maybe a curious look at Russell's in Bovina before rushing back to the safe zone. We have quite a few highly regarded golf courses, but it would seem likely they would put one in themselves.

No doubt Bovina and Andes, Delhi, would see a very nice surge in taxes from the resort from the agreement, up to 165,000 the first year and up to 300,000 by the end of the PILOT in ten years. However, to get to the resort as you may remember is a decent ATV trail and if they expect the town at $80,000 per mile of paved roads to have Bovina build that infrastructure then the town may be too busy working for them and not the town. Including other support services such as fire, etc. and not see any gain from the tax revenue.

Also from what I hear the proposal will include up to 50 small villas each costing up to 3 million, so perhaps that is where they could see a shorter gain on the investment. I agree with the cost to build it how many people would need to stay there to ever see a profit.

It is defiantly more promising than a year ago when the town thought the wind turbines would save them. This area is becoming very hot contrary to whatever the perception of the real estate market is currently. Kelsey had a good run here and never hit anything...

Last edited by BovinaCowHateWindTurbines; 10-16-2007 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:01 PM
1 posts, read 7,060 times
Reputation: 11
Very interesting to see what city people think of my hometown.

Lived there 17 years, until I had to get out when I graduated. No way to make it for a young person in the area, at least not lucratively. Real estate is expensive, and jobs are slim. Freelancers with families have been moving to the area over the past 5-10 years.

It's beautiful, and under-appreciated.
The whole no-cell phone service /wood-burning stove/Seasonal Access Highway .... is the whole appeal. Pure Samuel Coleridge. Pastoral setting. Escape from civilization.
The town is 50's, but 50's with acceptance and tolerance.
We saw a big rush post 9/11 when people were "afraid to be in the city"
many people interested in buying homes would jokingly call them selves "refugees".

The area does despise NYC (but we get over it fast interpersonally) for regulations, summer and weekend folks, people spoiled with the speed of the city who don't understand how to relax. Legend holds locals resentful for the flooding of townships for the resevoir. Recent regulations have forced small towns in the watershed into debt (and not to mention the mess) to dig up the towns to install sewer systems to replace outdated septic runoff into town streams.
Not to mention the DEP frustrating businesses with costs, and unnecessary 35mph speed limit around the resevoir (which is the only way to get some places)
However, Andes is very accepting for a "1950's community".. is an attractive spot for same-sex couples, some of which raising children. Many of the couples have started local restaurants, art galleries, and antique shops. Local churches are also gay-friendly.

The school system gets alot of money per student, because of the large school district, and few students to spend the money on. Few students however means few classes, and few sportsteams, few clubs. The ones that are there are well supported by the students.
A great deal of "hometown pride" exists in.... graduates from Andes if not the students who are frustrated with isolation and curiosity from living in a 1100 person bubble.

Anyone who has any questions about what it's like for a kid growing up in Andes, or about the school, or employment as a young person, or any kind of connections... I can help you if you're interested in moving to the area.
write me.
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