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Old 04-18-2009, 04:36 PM
1,180 posts, read 2,862,195 times
Reputation: 1613


You make a lot of good points. And I can sympathize with having an elderly parent who will not leave their beloved home. I personally don't want to leave NY, but I would really like to have the option to leave the area I live right now and look for opportunities in another part of the state. But my mother really depends on me (right now I'm afraid the rent I pay her is the only thing keeping the high property taxes at bay - her Social Security and STAR rebate certainly won't do much to make a dent) and she will never, ever leave her home. And her health is failing. There's no one else who can help.

What can you do? I guess the best thing you can do is try to prepare for a future when your family obligations are no longer tying you down. In the meantime I just try to live within my means, aggressively enjoy what NY *does* have to offer (like the Adirondacks and the parks system, and the proximity to other attractions) and try to think about working toward a different future. I really sympathize with how you must feel dragged down.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:31 PM
1,180 posts, read 2,862,195 times
Reputation: 1613
First off, NYC is not subsidized by upstate--- it is the other way around.
But that is not taking into account the very real fact, that Upstate cannot attract businesses because of labor union and other policies in place - policies that have been driven by Downstate interests, and which drive up the cost of business in Upstate to an intolerable level.

The irony is, now that NYC's financial industry has collapsed, NYC will also discover how these existing policies hurt the "real" business climate for everyone who isn't a Wall Street banker or a real estate magnate.

So of course we need to be subsidized... we're being kept "barefoot and pregnant" so to speak. That is deeply unfair, and to say that "NYC pays for Upstate" is just settling for half-truths about the real situation.
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:59 PM
Location: Now in Houston!
922 posts, read 3,406,472 times
Reputation: 662
Originally Posted by Latina7 View Post
If you live in New York City and own a house, the taxes are much, much, cheaper. For example: We own a huge, one-family house in one of the 5 boros, with a two-car garage, and the taxes are less than $4,500, per year. The same house in New Jersey, and will be about $15,000 per year.
But NYC residents pay income tax, so the overall tax burden is closer to the Jersey residents and suburbanites who pay higher property taxes, but do not pay city income tax.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:20 AM
Location: Where my bills arrive
7,171 posts, read 8,762,828 times
Reputation: 6948
For all that is written here I can relate, we finally convinced my mother to move to Virginia from NY(Rockland). Once I got into her bills/finances I was horrified. With STAR discount her yearly taxes were over 8k and for what a main street that is full of pot holes, shopping centers that are so dated they would close down by me. A school system with such old buildings the students held a walk out strike in Oct 2007 over the same conditions we complained about in the 70's.

Please don't give me the reteric about the advantages of living in NY. Some more comparisions my tax rate is $8.70 per $1,000 of assesed value my moms was @$45.00 per 1k in NY. Personal property tax in VA, (although despised) on moms car is $90.00 for the year, gas runs @$100 per month and electric is $38.

I like NY but I am realistic and like to live not survive something that wouldn't be an option up there. Gas averages 30 cents less, we have very limited to no tolls on the roads. We do pay taxes on food and clothes but the cost of these goods is significantly lower so we still come out ahead.

I could go on but I won't. I hope those that choose to stay and make change succeed! NY has a lot to offer but needs to get out of the post WWII mentality when they ruled, the laws of buisness and industry have changed and her way of doing buisness is not attracting any customers.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Location: Savannah, GA
1,449 posts, read 3,062,027 times
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Thanks VA Yankee-that's what we saw too when we went house hunting in Surfside Beach,SC. The home we'd looked at was 2500 sq ft, 4 bedrooms,2 1/2 baths. It was 3 years ago priced at $189,000. Taxes were just a tad of $500 for the year. It was in a HOA-which was just $35 a month which included garbage pick up. I'd rather pay $90 for the car per year than some of the crazy taxes we pay for things in NY. For me to register our camper it's $75 a year! And it's towed not driven and not used but in warm weather. It's a HUGE difference in price around the country compared to what we are taxed here in NY.

For my little postage stamp sized yard-1/3 of a acre,2000sqft-we now pay over $4500 a year for taxes. That's crazy. My car insurance has gone nuts in recent years due to the large influx moving to our county after 9/11. It used to cost me $2000 and $500 a year for homeowners. It's now close to $5000 for it all. Unless you make as a couple over 100K a year, your going to really struggle. Medium income in Dutchess for 1 person to live was roughly 68,000 a year. OK, but none of the jobs that are local pay that. We are trying to live on 50,000 for 5 people. At least when we built our house 17 years ago, we built for our budget and it's affordable. But it's the outside forces that's making it really tight. Our salaries didn't go up, but everything else has.

Somethings wrong when your utilities are more than your mortgage. Where does it end? We really can't make ends meet anymore and we've cut out all extras-no eating out, no excess driving, no meeting friends just for fun. What type of life is that? We cut back, utilities raise their rates once again because they say they aren't making money since the public is reducing their consumption. My gas for my vehicles is unreal-how come if they have the highest tax in the nation-our roads aren't better? That's what it's there for-roads. Dutchess County's roads are clogged on the Southern end. Our district hasn't built a school since 1969 and some of them are over crowded.

We are doing our research carefully where we are going to go when the time comes. We don't want to move to an area near sprawl ever again. Plus we are seriously considering moving to a non-income tax state. But there's trade offs with that too. But NY is going to have some very serious issues in the coming years and it's going to go bust and I don't want to be here when it does.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:01 PM
Location: Northwestern Michigan
941 posts, read 2,307,724 times
Reputation: 409
The chief culprit of high taxes in New York stems from many decades of corrupt politicians and organized crime infiltration into just about every facet of everyday life, especially around metro NYC.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:22 AM
81 posts, read 189,957 times
Reputation: 69
New York also has the highest gasoline tax in the nation at 41.3 cents a gallon
And in return you get some of the best maintained, best-engineered roads and some of the best snow and ice removal in one of the snowiest states in the country. I literally can't think of anyplace I've been that has roads as well maintained or engineering as NY state, maybe a few western states but that's it. How I wish our NJ gas taxes went back into the roads instead of going to Newark and CAmden and Trenton... at least you get something for your money.

As for the upstate vs downstate thing... I don't know if such a figure exists or where to begin looking for it, but I'd love to know, when everything is all added up- schools, social programs, law enforecent, assistance, transportation, highways, etc. etc. etc. etc.- the whole shebang- whether more is actually spent -per capita- in upstate vs downstate.

My only frame of reference is knowing that as formerly rural towns have grown with sprawl, their expenses (and hence taxes) go up... so I tend to think for all it's money and tax base, downstate is liekly to also be where the money is spent. I don't know this, but it seems logical that if when a small town grows it places a huge burden on the town financially, the same would follow for the upstate vs downstate comparison simply because downstate requires so much more to be put into it. Then again, now that I think about the snow removal and road maintenance issue, perhaps this is a poor argument since not much money is spent on snow removal and frsot damage downstate as compared with upstate where there is more freeeze-thaw damage and much more snow to remove. So to further discuss figures that I"m sure don't exist, maybe it would be interesting to see that per capita expense figure both before and after adjusting for winter and frost-related road maintenance expenses?
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:32 PM
16 posts, read 33,447 times
Reputation: 10
I know we are talking about NY in general, and there has been a lot of discussion about the NYC area, but can anyone give any first hand experience on example rates in WESTERN NY...Chauatauqua County specifically? Thanks
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:26 PM
Location: upstate ny
136 posts, read 346,050 times
Reputation: 81
we need term limits in albany, they get elected for a 2 year term and immediately start running for reelection again. our guy has won 11 times mostly by landslide or running unopposed and does nothing. i hate politicians for what they have done to this once great state. there is no excuse for a state this beautiful to have people moving elsewhere by the hundreds and thousands every day. they the politicians have separated and isolated families, everyone should try something else when they are young but our ny people who left cannot come back to this economy. we need serious reform they will not give us and it is killing us. they are driving us out. we have been in an upstate recession since august 1990 and my friends who drive here from toronto say upstate looks like a disaster area because of all the neglected real estate and lack of activity. start getting involved in your state politics now and if you had been before they couldn't get away with all the incompetence and sexual shenanigans in albany that they are so well known for in that area. register and vote for change like we did last year on the presidential level. there is no way, no way that a state like new york should be on its knees like it is now.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Location: Somewhere in America
12,305 posts, read 10,052,184 times
Reputation: 20460
Originally Posted by NJ Bear View Post
And in return you get some of the best maintained, best-engineered roads and some of the best snow and ice removal in one of the snowiest states in the country.
That only applies to major highways! And many of them are subsidized by the feds.

I have lived in this tax sucking house for close to 8 years. They have finally paved the street. The last time they did was over 20 years ago. And they didn't rip up the pavement. they just steamrolled asphalt over the old crappy, bumpy, pot holed pavement that was there. It's been a year and it's already started to turn to crap.

And my street is only plowed if there is school. I live on the road that goes to the high school and an elementary school. If there is no school and a foot of snow, the street will not be plowed. And they have NEVER salted or sanded this street in my 8 years.

All of NY is not what you speak of. Come see something outside of NYC and you'll see what a crap hole the state REALLY is!
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