"Why" do you live in upstate NY? (New York: housing, rent)

[swediepie]

Hello to all of you, from a first-time poster on this site. I have enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and insights and couldn't agree more about that key element of community. I was born in Miami, Fl 54 years ago, and grew up in what I describe as a Norman Rockwell kind of setting. No one can believe it when I tell them how wholesome it was then, with horse farms, churches, and schools just around the corner. There was also a bit of romance and daring in all the young couples (our parents) who struck out for a different kind of life in the land of promise that was Florida. Everyone on our "block" was 2nd generation italian, irish, swede, german, and french. It truly was a great place to grow up. My husband and I now live in Stuart, Fl and we would like to relocate to the sort of idyllic setting you describe, where we can once again know our neighbors and be part of something larger than ourselves. However, we know nothing about the different towns and would appreciate any and all info you can provide. We would like a small piece of land in a small town with lots of nature around. Adirondacks maybe? Any info on Elizabethtown? Thanks much! Nan

[Phish Head]

Just got back from my 2nd trip this year to Rochester. It was warm and 60 degrees. I actually got to see downtown Rochester. I went there expecting to see a boarded-up downtown, homeless people everywhere, tons of snow, unsafe areas, and basically a post-apocalytic warzone. At least thats how so many people described western NY cities to me.

What I found was a generally clean, nice downtown. Super friendly people, very helpful. Not much snow. Few, if any homeless. Extremely light traffic, getting around, between I-390, 490, and 590 was a breeze and I've never spent time there. Almost all of the homes looked lived-in and pretty well kept. Sure, there were a couple of seedy looking areas, but overall I'd say that the worst part of Rochester looked safer than the best part of Camden, NJ.

The suburban areas were especially nice. Wide roads with light traffic, electronic traffic signals kept traffic flowing well, even at rush hour. The hotel I stayed in was clean, cheap, and friendly. Every modern convenience with none of the hassle that is found here in NJ. People speak English. Nobody was snobby or super-wealthy. Very few breast-implanted women, botox centers, boutique pet stores, or liposuction clinics. You people who said that Pittsford and Fairport are pretentious should come down to NJ for a while. This may sound funny or weird but here in NJ you have 50% of the population that is uber-rich- live in huge mansions, and drive 85 mph in rain, on the cell phone, in their Hummers, then when they get a speeding ticket they have the means and resources to hire a lawyer and win, and make more money in the process. Then you have the other 50% which can't even afford an apartment and a 1984 Buick. Rochester, to me, seemed like almost everyone can at least afford a nice used car, a house in the burbs, and maybe go out to eat once a week. Not pretentious, but seemed solid. The homes in the best suburbs that are $200,000 would be $600,000 here, and the taxes here are double.

The worst part about Rochester (and for that matter Syracuse): grass is greener syndrome. The people I met couldn't understand why I liked Rochester. They all think that life is better in (fill in the blank here: NYC, NJ, NC, Florida, etc). The news media there must be designed to scare people- all they talked about was crime, Section 8 housing, job losses, cloudy weather, etc. If you follow the Rochester news, you'd think that you'd walk out your door, into a blizzard, a black man would stab you, you wouldn't be able to get help from a hospital because they are closing, you'd end up in Section 8 housing with rats and roaches, lose your job, etc.

If I were lucky enough to have family in Rochester, I'd move there tomorrow. Unfortunately, due to the distance from family, we just can't see making a move there. I know the jobs aren't that plentiful, but a resourceful person could find a decent home that may need cosmetic work, for around $100k. Two people working at McDonalds 40 hours a week could afford a small house in Rochester if they pooled their money together. My wife and I work 60 hours a week each and can't afford even a townhouse here.

[Phish Head]

By the way, we are looking at moving no more than 3 hours away from Monmouth County, NJ. Can anyone offer any info on:

Lehigh Valley, PA -vs- Scranton/Poconos, PA -vs- Capital Region, NY

My wife is a teacher, and I can work from any location in NY, NJ or PA. Please, any help comparing these areas would be helpful. Thanks!

[rogeriofocco]

Originally Posted by Lauri_25ny

I'm a country girl, through and through.

Background........
My Mom was Bronx, born and raised. I was born on Long Island (Oceanside). My Mom didn't want her kids to be "urban kids". She wanted us to grow up in the country, lots of room to run, no threat of violence, etc. In 1972 when I was 5 and my brother was 7, she picked up and moved us here to Tioga County.

I stayed because I love the fact that I can walk down the street and know every single person that goes by. The village that I live in has a whopping population of about 860. The parade on the 4th of July almost has a family reunion feel to it. You just know the people and you're comfortable with them. I don't lock my doors at night and half the time I leave my keys in my car. I go to sleep with the sound of the creek running beyond my backyard. And I live right on the main road.

I couldn't imagine living in a city. All those lights, noise and stuff. My town doesn't even have a traffic light. Not even a flashing one!

Hi for all!
Dear friends.
Who can help me, to get information about the question “quality of live” in suburbs the cities Americans, please?
Say for me how you living in your suburb and how was the structure habiting urban.
I’d like don’t incommode!
The idea was make interchange information between us with my place.
Understood me?
It’s very important for me, all right!
Come in you make a visiting in my house!
I like makes friends in U.S.
Are you like to be my friend?

Thanks.

[Phish Head]

Originally Posted by rogeriofocco

Hi for all!
Dear friends.
Who can help me, to get information about the question “quality of live” in suburbs the cities Americans, please?
Say for me how you living in your suburb and how was the structure habiting urban.
I’d like don’t incommode!
The idea was make interchange information between us with my place.
Understood me?
It’s very important for me, all right!
Come in you make a visiting in my house!
I like makes friends in U.S.
Are you like to be my friend?

Thanks.

Is this a joke or did Borat actually join this forum? U S and A! U S and A!

[I'minformed2]

Originally Posted by Phish Head

Just got back from my 2nd trip this year to Rochester. It was warm and 60 degrees. I actually got to see downtown Rochester. I went there expecting to see a boarded-up downtown, homeless people everywhere, tons of snow, unsafe areas, and basically a post-apocalytic warzone. At least thats how so many people described western NY cities to me.

What I found was a generally clean, nice downtown. Super friendly people, very helpful. Not much snow. Few, if any homeless. Extremely light traffic, getting around, between I-390, 490, and 590 was a breeze and I've never spent time there. Almost all of the homes looked lived-in and pretty well kept. Sure, there were a couple of seedy looking areas, but overall I'd say that the worst part of Rochester looked safer than the best part of Camden, NJ.

The suburban areas were especially nice. Wide roads with light traffic, electronic traffic signals kept traffic flowing well, even at rush hour. The hotel I stayed in was clean, cheap, and friendly. Every modern convenience with none of the hassle that is found here in NJ. People speak English. Nobody was snobby or super-wealthy. Very few breast-implanted women, botox centers, boutique pet stores, or liposuction clinics. You people who said that Pittsford and Fairport are pretentious should come down to NJ for a while. This may sound funny or weird but here in NJ you have 50% of the population that is uber-rich- live in huge mansions, and drive 85 mph in rain, on the cell phone, in their Hummers, then when they get a speeding ticket they have the means and resources to hire a lawyer and win, and make more money in the process. Then you have the other 50% which can't even afford an apartment and a 1984 Buick. Rochester, to me, seemed like almost everyone can at least afford a nice used car, a house in the burbs, and maybe go out to eat once a week. Not pretentious, but seemed solid. The homes in the best suburbs that are $200,000 would be $600,000 here, and the taxes here are double.

The worst part about Rochester (and for that matter Syracuse): grass is greener syndrome. The people I met couldn't understand why I liked Rochester. They all think that life is better in (fill in the blank here: NYC, NJ, NC, Florida, etc). The news media there must be designed to scare people- all they talked about was crime, Section 8 housing, job losses, cloudy weather, etc. If you follow the Rochester news, you'd think that you'd walk out your door, into a blizzard, a black man would stab you, you wouldn't be able to get help from a hospital because they are closing, you'd end up in Section 8 housing with rats and roaches, lose your job, etc.

If I were lucky enough to have family in Rochester, I'd move there tomorrow. Unfortunately, due to the distance from family, we just can't see making a move there. I know the jobs aren't that plentiful, but a resourceful person could find a decent home that may need cosmetic work, for around $100k. Two people working at McDonalds 40 hours a week could afford a small house in Rochester if they pooled their money together. My wife and I work 60 hours a week each and can't afford even a townhouse here.

What you said about that "grass is greener syndrome" steamlined by the media is 100% true...and it really makes me angry to be honest. EVERYTHING is spun in a negative way...weather (even durring summer when it's beautiful there, the media will pinpoint every 90+ degree day and say something along the lines of "We just can't win here in Rochester, too cold and snowy in winter, too hot and humid in summer") the economy, (a new healthcare company just announced it's coming to town and is bringing in 500 highpaying jobs dowtown...but the fact that Petsmart is closing a warehouse that will cause 200 jobs, mostly assembly line jobs, to be lost...gets more attention). Don't get me wrong, for every person who moans and groans about Rochester's weather, economy, taxes, or anything else...and feels that ANYWHERE else would be a better place to live...there is another one bursting with civic pride who is more than happy to call the area home....they just don't get heard as much unfortunetly. The fact that you came at the tail end of a long snowy winter (well, long snowy february and half of march at least....january was actually the warmest and least snowy in Rochester's history)...might have something to do with it. You might get a different review from residents if you were visting from May to October.

[Glen NY]

Phish, You are right on target. I live outside of Syracuse and can say first of all this quality of life cannot be obtained at any cost on Long Island. But to come close to it would cost millions. I don't see graffiti(rarely). I don't see superficial, snobby people. Everyone is speaking the same language. I never feel threatened by crime or terrorism ( I was at 9/11 and will never forget) I never sit in traffic. My home is so inexpensive and beautiful, would be an easy 1mil on Long Island. I can just keep going, there is no comparison.
You are right about the grass is greener attitude. I listened to these two DJs talk about snow one morning. The language they used made me think I should start to feel bad about it, they went on and on complaining and crying, it is a shame.

[Pidgett]

All I can say is right-on to "i'minformed"'s post. He says it all. Upstate cities need to get the word out loud and clear that there is a whole lot of GREATNESS to them. As was pointed out, the negative seems to dominate the residents who can't see the forest for the trees, if I may use this cliche. My wife is a born-and-raised Adirondacker. She tells me of how the natives can be so "down-on-their-town," negative and cynical about where they live; the grass-is-greener analogy "i'minformed" mentioned. Mind blowing. They need to get out more. And I will add to all those who complain about where thye live, native or not, if you don't like where you live, MOVE! Do something! Mrs. Pidgett and I can't wait to move back to the Adirondacks or Vermont at the end of 2007 as per my job relocation. I was born and raised in interior Maine which has a lot in common with much of upstate NY, especially the ADK's. So I will consider the move there to be like "coming home." For Mrs. P, it definitely will be coming home. For those who don't know, I presently live in SW West Virginia and this has not been the best fit for us. There are nice enough folks and all for the most part in WV, but what they say about Appalachia is all too true. And that is for another time and topic.

[Pidgett]

Kudos to "Phish Head" and "Glen NY" too for their enlightening posts!!

[homeward bound]

Just a guess, but I do think that two things are at work here causing at least some of this excessive negativism you hear from a lot of Upstaters.

The first is the fact that a lot of them are homebodies. I've often heard them say that X town is "far" from Y town--when they're only 20, 30 minutes apart. It's a paradox that actually contradicts their own negativism: exactly because Upstate often offers so much of what you could possibly need or want within a cozy locus, a lot of Upstaters do not travel much even in NY state, much less around the country. Most have not been to this and that "better place." So they just don't know that what they hear about great-to-live places elsewhere is just hype compared to what they already have where they are. It's a twist on the old "Take it all for granted" phenomenon.

Another paradox is much sadder, I think. Probably most of the natives' negativism comes from what a lingering shock it's been to lose SO MANY quality jobs--the kind that allowed immigrants and people coming from the American South to move into the middle class, live securely, have faith in America and their own futures. In other words, Upstate was SUCH a great trampoline into the American Dream, to have it pulled out from under them in mid-jump was deeply traumatizing. The old "You-have-longer-to-fall-from-the-mountaintop" phenomenon.

I remember sitting in a snowed-in hunting cabin with recently laid-off steel workers from Buffalo's Republic Steel plant. As the men talked and drank, they made two lists. The first was of how great they'd had it for two generations: good pay, job security, great benefits, year after year pay increases, this and that you could buy for your family and actually pay for outright, etc.

The second list was of who and what to blame for "what happened to it all": "them foreigners," "them blacks," "them Jews," "management," "union bosses," "disloyal foreign-buying consumers," etc., etc.

It was chilling to see how quickly their faith in America--and in Upstate New York as a symbol and locus of that faith--had curdled into deep resentment. Worry and HURT had become dangerous anger. But I could understand it: they had BELIEVED and TRUSTED, and now that sense of trust appreciated, trust recipocated with security, was all gone. "What's next?" one guy blurted. "They gonna take Genny Cream and bowling from us too?"

One guy said nothing about any of this, but just kept staring out at the snow falling, cursing it hour after hour. Then, toward nightfall, he got up and went outside, his shotgun in hand. Some of the men jumped up to stop him, but he ran ahead--and emptied his shotgun at a snowdrift, cursing between each blast. Yet the previous winter, before he'd been laid off, I'd heard him repeatedly say, "I just love the way snow looks out here in the country."

Get your job-security and your hopes for an improving future pulled out from under you, and what was beautiful suddenly looks like it's mocking you. And what you can still manage to see as good, is a painful remainder of what was so great.

So what's needed, I suppose, is that ever-elusive balance: Sure, jobs are plentiful elsewhere, especially in the "growing" places. But put yourself in a suburban office park outside of Houston, or Atlanta, or Charlotte NC, or someplace similar--and that's just it: they're ALL the same: anonymous, historyless, textureless, impersonal, materialistic, premised on the car and buying and more buying and more cars, with no place to walk and no village green to walk to if you could walk. You can't even tell, much less see and admire, the work that's done within the featureless concrete walls and unopening windows. And there's no saying hi to neighbors, and nodding inwardly at the tree or the porch or the cast of light you've known since your grandfather took you by his work-strengthened hand to proudly let you have your own chance to sink your own roots into your HOMEtown, cracked sidewalks and all.

NONE of these "hot" places offer what Upstate NY, at its frequent best, still offers: a sane pace of life, community, texture, a sense of origins and roots, the reality of the seasons as living things in one's memory and daily life, vast variety where you can go from a city with beautiful architecture and real human texture to wilderness in an hour or less, the visible presence of other human hands and hearts. I've been to 40 states now, North and South, East and West, but I've never seen such a sweeping stretch of what's best about America as I've found in Upstate New York. I'm kind of glad that so many others either don't know this or even disregard it--keeps it from getting too crowded. But at the same time, if negative Upstaters stopped to ask themselves, what do you want out of LIFE, I bet they'd see that most of the best of that is right there around them....