Who else is moving to North Carolina? (Rochester, Albany: homeowners association, calculator)

[proulxfamily]

Originally Posted by bluerose84

Concerts, museums, historic landmarks, parks, broadway-type shows, street fairs,and activities related to pets.

We have many sources of live entertainment... on the amateur and world-class levels.

Syracuse Symphony Orchestra... ballets, operas, symphonies, plays, etc.... most heavily concentrated during the winter but play year-round. In addition to that, there's Syracuse University's many events. When I was in college and looking for something to do other than the regular "young adult scene", I could always count on going to Hendrick's Chapel for calming, classical music on Sunday evenings, whether it was practice or an actual event. Both were stunning.

Syracuse Stage and a host of other theatres around Central New York. I'm constantly being invited to plays. In the summer, the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra (locally known as the SSO) plays in random parks throught central NY... my favorite remains on the extensive lawns of Lorenzo Mansion in Cazenovia, in full view of the length of the lake. I'll always have those memories of quilts and chairs, wine and appetizers and blueberry beer in tidy baskets, children quietly entertaining themselves or sleeping in the arms of family and friends... while being wooed by a full orchestra in that beautiful setting, from dusk to twilight. Truly stunning.

As far as festivals, there seems to be one every weekend... between downtown and the NY State Fairgrounds, less than 10 minutes away, there's at least one going on. This past weekend, there was the Pride of NY Harvest Fest and Sunday kicked off Uber Beer Fest - Syracuse Beer Week with local brewers and microbrewers for tastings. There was also the SSO's Brahms Choral Masterpiece programme, with strong participation from Syracuse University's choral groups. Lots of other smaller things too but those were the big ones.

We have many historical museums, as Syracuse was the base for a large amount growth in upstate NY, especially with the Erie Canal having run right through downtown Syracuse.

My future husband is very into marathons and sports activities, so I'm sure he'd enjoy access to a lot of outdoor activities like hiking, perhaps kayaking, etc.

Syracuse is based where the foothills of the Adirondacks and Catskills meet. MANY athletic events of that nature are held here, or in this general area, because of it. Bikers train in our hills immediately to the south of Syracuse and spreading east (*huge*, rolling hills in the countryside toward Colgate) and west (toward the Finger Lakes, the second largest winery region in the nation, which is less than an hour from downtown Syracuse.) The half Iron Man was held here, this past month, and was a great success. The running scene is VERY active, with many running groups and events held what seems like at least one every weekend. We're also in an enormous lake region... there are lakes everywhere and events to go with them... boating, kayaking, sailing, fishing, organized open-water swims, triathlons, etc.

It'd also be great to be near a major airport so we can get back to see our family often, and travel elsewhere.

Hancock International (Canada lol) Airport.

I've heard great things about Charlotte but I thought the Raleigh/Durham area would be better for healthcare (my profession) and law (his).

The healthcare field here is huge and there are MANY jobs. Our area has very low unemployment (7.2 or 7.6%... somewhere in that area.) My father is a nurse and works a full-time job at a local hospital (there are four major hospitals, not counting health centers or specialist hospitals, within several square miles) AND still works two others per diem... they were past employers who still need him to fill in, because of the shortage. The medical presence and need for positions to be filled is HUGE. There's also Syracuse University's College of Law, which is emerging as a specialist in the field of National Security Law and thus, a great deal of knowledge and experience in the region not only is present but expanding as well.

Regarding snow-cold, I'm c&p'ing an excerpt from my post to someone else about it:

Syracuse's weather has a reputation that is more bark than bite, imo. It will be cold, surely, but it rarely goes less than -5. And THAT cold is a sporadic EVENT to *everyone,* mainly because the salt the DPW drops on the road is ineffective for melting ice and anti-freeze fluid for the windshield stops working too, even after you chip the ice off of them. :P Again though, that happens perhaps a few days each winter and it usually resulted in cancelled classes for most, as a good number of professors can't GET to class safely. Otherwise, I'd expect most days to be in the teens and 20's, as a high. In the spring, order a cheap nothing from LLBean and it'll come with a clearance catalog... you should be able to get the things you need for winter, dirt cheap. GoreTex all-weather coat for $30, gloves, a hat and boots. All of it for less than $100. And pick up an $8 snowbrush/ice scraper at a gas station, when the weather turns wintery. You'll be all set. Our roads are promptly cleared of snow and then salted, almost always, and winter-driving isn't a problem. We get a lot of snow, yes, but it doesn't fall all at once... and it melts quickly. We can have a heavy snow in December and then a warm January... a few years ago, my daughter's 3rd birthday party resulted in all the windows and doors being thrown open... on January 5th... because it was 70 degrees out! lol A week later, we went to the Rosamond Gifford Zoo without coats because it was in the high 50's. Our winters aren't very reliable. :P

The great thing about winter, though you might need the first year to acclamate to the cold, is skiing/snowboarding, tubing, ice skating, sleigh rides and just good, old-fashioned sledding... right down SU Hill even. lol The people around here, who really enjoy living here, tend to participate in winter activities. Westcott Theatre is a place I suggest looking up, for *frequent* shows, which sits in the very center of the University/Westcott neighborhood, where most of the students live. (They're on Facebook as well.) Not to mention downtown's Armory Square, just down the hill from SU, and there's a dedicated bus line between SU and downtown. We also have a minor-league hockey team, if you're at all interested in that... it's also just down the hill from SU.

For warmer weather, you can do just about anything. The Finger Lakes wine region (second largest in the nation, second only to Napa Valley) is 45 minutes away, the Adirondacks (NE), Catskills (SE) and Poconos (S) are several hours away. New York City is 4 hours away - 3 if you're lead-footed. Boston is 5 hours. Toronto and Montreal are both 5-6 hours away. For other activities, we have a minor-league baseball team, numberous lakes and beaches to swim in and sail on, hiking, fishing, biking, MANY running races and the great NY State Fair to end the summer.

[topchief1]

Originally Posted by bluerose84

All the posts on this thread have me concerned. I grew up in Orange County in the Hudson Valley of New York, lived in Albany, NY for 7 years during and after college, and now I live in South Florida for grad school. I loved growing up in the Hudson Valley because of the rural atmosphere, but as a young adult I found it exceedingly boring. I loved going to college in Albany because it is a great college town, but now that I have lost interest partying and clubs as my main activity, I found that boring as well. I hate living in South Florida for every reason except the mild winters. I thought NC, specifically the Raleigh area, would be my hope for the best of both worlds because there is seemingly much more to do than the HV/Albany region of NY, the winters are milder than NY and the summers are more bearable (hopefully) than South Florida. I really want to live somewhere with seasons, a relatively liberal or at least a "live and let live" mindset, job opportunities in healthcare and law (for my spouse), things to do (museums, concerts, etc), near a major airport to get back to NY to see my family often, a good place to raise a family and relatively low cost of living. There is no way I'm staying in South Florida, and despite that my family all lives in NY and the general love of all things NY, the terrible winters and cost of living are huge deterrents to returning. If the Raleigh NC area isn't the dream location I thought it was, what is??

First, there is no such thing as a "dream location" Every place has it's own set of pros and cons, and you need to determine which places pros meet your needs and cons won't bother you as much. Also, Raleigh is no live and let live. I don't live there, but whenever they are in the news, it's usually something about how people are trying to force people to paint their homes generic colors like white or beige, because some colors are too upsetting for them, or they are trying to ban children from playing in the street, and want to fine parents for being accomplices. I'm glad I never moved there.

On top of that, like I said before, every place has it's own problems, I've found that food costs in NC are higher, the traffic is much worse then most of NYS, and it's expensive to own and register a car here. If you want to find a dream location, do some research, look for some places that have the things that you want, then look to see what people complain about to get an idea.

If you are looking to be closer to home without dealing with some of the headaches involved with NYS, may I suggest a place like Harrisburg, PA?

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by topchief1

First, there is no such thing as a "dream location" Every place has it's own set of pros and cons, and you need to determine which places pros meet your needs and cons won't bother you as much. Also, Raleigh is no live and let live. I don't live there, but whenever they are in the news, it's usually something about how people are trying to force people to paint their homes generic colors like white or beige, because some colors are too upsetting for them, or they are trying to ban children from playing in the street, and want to fine parents for being accomplices. I'm glad I never moved there.

On top of that, like I said before, every place has it's own problems, I've found that food costs in NC are higher, the traffic is much worse then most of NYS, and it's expensive to own and register a car here. If you want to find a dream location, do some research, look for some places that have the things that you want, then look to see what people complain about to get an idea.

If you are looking to be closer to home without dealing with some of the headaches involved with NYS, may I suggest a place like Harrisburg, PA?

A good and underrated area to consider. Another area in PA that might work is the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area. Pittsburgh is another area that has been changing for the better, in spite of slowly losing people still. Columbus OH might work too.

[karlsd]

I have read all 46 pages of this thread and I think its time that someone inflicts a bit of common sense and basic logic to this thread. First and foremost this thread is very biased. 50% of people who are on this thread are people who have moved to NC from other places and from what I have read none of them did their due diligence and thorough research prior to the big move and it did not work out for them for one reason or another, so obviously they are very upset and this is a great way of venting. They may seem like they are helping others by telling them not to make the move but in reality they are doing us a disservice by clouding our minds with doubt based on their own personal opinions that may differ from yours or mine. And I would say that about 25% of people on this board are people that live in NC…the natives (people that were born and raised there), that are defending their community from many of these verbal attacks (who can blame them?). Then there is the other 25%....where I fall into….we are the people contemplating the move and have participated on this thread to ask questions and try to learn some things to help us decide if this move is for us. But guess who is missing??? How bout the folks that actually made the move and are happy with it!!! Hardly any on this thread. So what does that tell you? Does that mean that people who have made the move and are happy with their decision do NOT exist??? I’ll tell you what it means…it means that the VERY LAST PLACE a content person who has made the move and has improved their situation will be…is trolling a message boards such as this one……you know why? Cause they are happy!!! I have news for you all…there are many thousands who have made the transition and are now living in a much better “place” then they were prior…BUT THEY ARENT ON A MESSAGE BOARD RAVING IT ABOUT…..that’s not what happy people do!!!. Miserable people VENT on message boards.

Now, that being said. I am not telling anyone to move to NC. As I previously stated, I am one of the ones contemplating the move. I am a 40 year old man who works in IT and my wife and I are thinking about moving from Deer Park Long Island, NY to the Raleigh/Cary area. We do not have kids yet but we are trying now. My wife was born and raised in NC (the Thomasville area) and has been up in NY for the past 12 years pursuing a dancing/acting career. I was born and raised in Brooklyn and move to LI about 11 years ago. As a couple we go down to NC to visit her family 4 or 5X a year. So I am very familiar with what NC has to offer and what kind of people I’d be dealing with and living amongst.

Now, here is another biggie to me that is not being considered during all these posts…..Your expectations….your happiness…..your financial situation…..your community living after the big move is SOLELY dictated by WHERE YOU CAME FROM. What do I mean by this? Well if one comes from way upstate NY, such as the Rochester area and makes the move to NC they will NOT see a tremendous difference financially (house prices and taxes are relatively low already) or with the people’s personalities (slower paced). What they will see is a big difference with the weather. So not much to gain there. Now someone such as myself who paid over 400K for a 1800 sq ft house that pays 8800 taxes annually who is surrounded by faster paced people will see a huge difference, especially financially.

I’d like to clarify something about the state of NY for those on this board not from NY. There are the 5 boroughs (Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, Manhattan and Staten Island) and Long Island. Then there is the REST of NY. For the sake of conversation when we talk about NY the state needs to be divided in ½. The 5 boroughs/LI and the REST. Upstate NY might as well be another state in terms of the people, the cost of housing and job overall economy. It’s slower paced, housing is cheaper…its small town living. The 5 boroughs and LI are crowded, fast paced, expensive to live…city living. So it’s not a coincidence that many who participated on this board from upstate NY were disappointed with the move. All they really gained was nicer weather. But from someone like me who lives on LI will save a significant amount of money by making the move. For me there are 2 main components that are equally important to me. Let’s call it 1 and 1A. Money and Happiness. For me to make this move I will need at least one of the two to be substantially increased. Obviously I would like both to be substantially increased. But I will take one while the other is status quo. I will not however sacrifice one for the other.

Now let’s talk about the money. I have done enough homework that shows that I will have much more money in my pocket at the end of the month/year if I made the move. This determination was based on a number of factors. The first was salary comparisons.

Good cost of living calculator (I wouldn’t treat the results as golden but Does give you a good baseline):

Cost of living: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney.com

my results - this means I would only need to make 74K in NC to live the same way as I do now) I make 110K so that means if I made 110K in NC id be +35K:

Comparable salary in
Raleigh, NC
$74,164
If you move from Nassau County, NY to Raleigh, NC....
Groceries will cost:
15%
less

Housing will cost:
57%
less

Utilities will cost:
25%
less

Transportation will cost:
15%
less

Healthcare will cost:
16%
Less

If I lived in Rochester NY – It would be negligible

Comparable salary in
Raleigh, NC
$108,018
If you move from Rochester, NY to Raleigh, NC....
Groceries will cost:
10%
more

Housing will cost:
6%
less

Utilities will cost:
8%
less

Transportation will cost:
11%
less

Healthcare will cost:
1%
more

Now I may have an advantage here over others because of the field I am in. I work in IT as a Network Engineer and I went as far as creating a dummy resume and submitting it to the popular head hunting sites. What I did was take my existing resume and I put a NC address on it. I did this a few years ago and actually got a job offer over the phone that had a salary GREATER then my current NY salary at the time. This time around I am seeing the same types of numbers. I have come across a number of potential job offers that are in my current salary range. Of course I am not accepting any at this time. This was just a test to see if I can make there what I make here. And that test was passed. The other key factors financially are the cost of Real Estate and Home taxes. This is where there is a total landslide difference between where I am now and where I am considering moving. I currently pay a mortgage on a 400K house that is 1800 Sq ft on an 8th of an acre (I have about 30 ft of grass in the front and back of the house with neighbors on all sides of me). I pay 8800 annually for Home taxes on this property. My wife and I are looking at houses such as this one in Raleigh:

73 Malachite CT Raleigh NC - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - MLS #1788986 - Realtor.com®

This is just an example. $259K, 2,780 Sq Ft on .77 acre…taxes = $1,814/annually

All I can say is WOW!!! The most staggering # is the taxes. A savings of 7K a year!!! And I get a ton of land and 1000 more sq ft of house. I don’t think anyone can argue that the savings is SIGNIFICANT when you move from a big city type area to a place like NC when you talk about housing. Now if your salary is going to decrease substantially along with the move then yes one may negate the other so if you are thinking about it the big move MAKE SURE you can A. get a job in your field relatively easily and B. Make close to what you are currently making currently. There were some other things discussed on this board such as the NC hidden taxes. So I did some Homework there. There was a lot of talk about the car tax. Something that I don’t have to pay in NY currently.

Car Value x 0.00734 per year. So if you have a car valued at 10K you will pay roughly $73/year. Wow 73 bucks!!! But what about car insurance. I did some homework there too. Cheaper in NC then in NY. That savings will offset the car tax.

NY avg premium = $1297
NC avg premium = $1164

Average Auto Insurance Premiums and Rates by State

And the garbage pickup tax/fee. I hear its about 300/year. Utilities. We get killed in NY with Oil heat due to the inclement weather. We also get killed with Electric in the hot summer months. So we are killed all year round in NY. Yes there will be more electric usage annually in NC but overall you will save substantially on utilities on avg for the year.

NY electric KW/hr = 17.42
NC electric KW/hr = 9.75

Significant!!!!

Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State

Here is the bottom line in regards to finances…If you live in a big city type area and you’re paying a lot for a little and your utilities and taxes are through the roof AND YOU CAN MAKE AROUND THE SAME MONEY after the move you will come out WAY ON TOP. There is no question about this. If you are coming from a small town type area you will not gain much if anything at all financially.

So enough about money. It is pretty obvious that if you’re in a position like I am it’s a no brainer from a dollar point of view. But like I said I will only be ½ way there. I need to be happy too. Having an extra 10-20K in my pocket at the end of each year is nice but wont mean much if I am miserable with my living situation. Like I said I go down to visit family 4 or 5X a year. And every time I go I watch. I listen. I pay attention to detail. And thus far I haven’t seen or heard anything that was a major show stopper in terms of making the Big Move. I also haven’t seen anything that has made me want to pack my bags and jump on a plane for the permanent move either….SO FAR. I say so far because there is much to be determined. The first time I was in NC my wife and I drove up to Cary from Thomasville to check out some houses. It was a poorly planned trip and we didn’t have much time to do anything else but walk around the 4000 sq ft houses for 325K (yes just ridiculous….took us 20 min to walk through some of these mini mansions). So we didn’t have much time to take it all in, mingle with the locals, grab a bite to eat and really picture ourselves living there. Now yes we go to Thomasville 4-5X a year. But Thomasville is not Raleigh. It’s like comparing Rochester to Brooklyn, both in the same state but night and day. My overall experiences in NC since I have been visiting have been positive. People have been nice to me. Weather was always nice. Seems to be safer, slower paced but like I said I have not truly sampled the area I am planning on living. So that being said we have planned a trip in August when we go down to visit her family. And we will drive up to Raleigh and spend 3 full days. My objective during this time is to mingle, test the commute from Raleigh to RTP, go to the malls, go out to eat. I am going to survey all that I can and take in as much as I can during that period. And when I come to a conclusion I will be sure to come back to this board and fill you all in with my feedback.

Now one more thing. There was a lot of talk about newcomers being harassed, being called a Yankee, etc. You know what? Most of you probably deserved what you got. NYers are arrogant know it alls. How do I know this? Cause I am one of them. BUT I am aware. And I am RESPECTFUL and I want to FIT IN. So I hold back when I go to new places. They are opening their doors to us. So be nice to them….maybe even extra nice and guess what? They will be just as nice to you. When I first met my in laws; Old School Southern, Bible Belt Christians and her 2 brothers (old school pistol carrying good old boys) I was a Damn arrogant typical Yankee, until proven otherwise. It wasn’t said but I knew it. And it took some time but over time I showed them that I wasn’t typical and they have accepted me. So if I make that move I plan on fitting in and will not have any intentions trying to re-create NY in NC.

I will keep ya’ll posted……

[ckhthankgod]

So, why not move Upstate? It's not all small towns up here. I know in comparison to NYC, it is, but it isn't much different than other states with mid sized cities. All of the major Upstate metros are in the top 100 in population too.

[Sean®]

I know what you mean about the locals. My cousin lives in the Triangle and I stay from time to time. The locals are great people, but they are being kinda invaded and are a little distrustful. And NYers are a VERY LOUD, arrogant people. Try talking a little quieter and everyone is kewl. I actually like the natives and long term transplants better.

All the extra taxes and fees are like urban legends. Or bigfoot. I hear about them but in the real World they never materialize. I tell my cousins how much extra they pay and we laugh. In NY I, and before the move them, get hit with every single tax and fee NY can dream up.

And BTW they were from Rochester so it is very much cheaper for them down there. On the surface Upstate NY is a brutally expensive place to live but when you scratch a little deeper you find NY is eye poppingly more expensive to live.

But in the end NC is not for me. Mountains to the right and the Coast to the left with great roads connecting them is hard to say no to but its just not for me.

Enjoy your escape from this state.

[karlsd]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

So, why not move Upstate? It's not all small towns up here. I know in comparison to NYC, it is, but it isn't much different than other states with mid sized cities. All of the major Upstate metros are in the top 100 in population too.

my email was long and drawn out enough...i didnt want to get into every detail as to why I am looking to move...its not just about the $...another BIGGIE is the weather. I had enough of the 5 months of bitter cold and 5ft windrifts of snow that gets pushed by the snow cleaners that are so damn high that my snow blower cant move them and still have to go out there with my shovel. Snow was fun when I was a kid...now I am a 40 year old man with a bad back who cannot stand the bitter cold. I will take 2 months of Brutal heat over 5 months of Brutal cold any day.

Besides, there are no jobs upstate. So Id be poor and even colder. Upstate NY has to be the worst place to live...you get the worst of all worlds unless your a snow bird and love to ski, etc.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Sean®

I know what you mean about the locals. My cousin lives in the Triangle and I stay from time to time. The locals are great people, but they are being kinda invaded and are a little distrustful. And NYers are a VERY LOUD, arrogant people. Try talking a little quieter and everyone is kewl. I actually like the natives and long term transplants better.

All the extra taxes and fees are like urban legends. Or bigfoot. I hear about them but in the real World they never materialize. I tell my cousins how much extra they pay and we laugh. In NY I, and before the move them, get hit with every single tax and fee NY can dream up.

And BTW they were from Rochester so it is very much cheaper for them down there. On the surface Upstate NY is a brutally expensive place to live but when you scratch a little deeper you find NY is eye poppingly more expensive to live.

But in the end NC is not for me. Mountains to the right and the Coast to the left with great roads connecting them is hard to say no to but its just not for me.

Enjoy your escape from this state.

Upstate NY is not expensive in comparison to many, if not most areas. There are fees/taxes on vehicles, toll taxes, home prices are higher on average and there have been tax increases for some Southern states. So, there is more to overall COL than taxes.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by karlsd

my email was long and drawn out enough...i didnt want to get into every detail as to why I am looking to move...its not just about the $...another BIGGIE is the weather. I had enough of the 5 months of bitter cold and 5ft windrifts of snow that gets pushed by the snow cleaners that are so damn high that my snow blower cant move them and still have to go out there with my shovel. Snow was fun when I was a kid...now I am a 40 year old man with a bad back who cannot stand the bitter cold. I will take 2 months of Brutal heat over 5 months of Brutal cold any day.

Besides, there are no jobs upstate. So Id be poor and even colder. Upstate NY has to be the worst place to live...you get the worst of all worlds unless your a snow bird and love to ski, etc.

Not necessarily true about the job market and check out unemployment rates: Central New York Jobs

Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

Also, you make it seem like winter is constant here. We actually have seasons up here and Fall might be the best of the 4.

Lastly, my question was more rhetorical, as it could be an option for some Downstate folks instead of leaving the state.

[Sean®]

That paticular guy stated he hated Winter, as many do, and Upstate is at least twice as bad.

Plus in your limited view NY is cheap but out in the real World this state is a slaughter house of taxes and fee's. Just to use this one week as an example I bought a 1000 tool. I got popped for an extra 100 beans just so Albany could give it to welfare scum. Maybe in your liberal wealth redistribution Utopia a 100 bucks is walking around money but to alot of middle class NYers thats real money.

The taxes and spending are 100% out of control. Voting is useless in NY. The scum have figured out they can vote themselves "pay" raises every year or worst case every 9 months. The only way to fix NY is for the rest of the working people to move out and let the welfare zombies eat the liberals.