Relocating to Watertown... (Syracuse, Albany, Utica: apartment, rent, crime)

[iluvfrank]

The Watertown area is what you make of it, Some like it, some don't..it offers a wide variety of Winter Activities, ... Summers are short but nice, we have Camping, Fishing, Beaches & Watersports Galore. The area has grown so much within the last year, I'm not sure I want it to continue.
Like Tina said, many new stores and restaurants are opening as I type this.
I like the small hometown feel this area has. All of the schools are decent, I don't feel any are so called "bad".. I'v heard good things Of General Brown, and Sackets Harbor. Also a Catholic School in the City called IHC, has a wonderful reputation. My children have been going to the Indian River School district for about 7 yrs now, and I'm very happy with the school. Its one of the bigger districts, The IRC elementary schools are wonderful. and they have a Big new Intermediate Building just ages 4-5.. South Jeff is also a great district. Its south of Watn. and closer to Syracuse. Which is the hub of the area, I am heading to Syracuse this afternoon myself.
Like earlier noted, Canada is just a hop away, and Ottawa is a Beautiful City with a ton of culture. Lake Placid and the Adirondack Mtns. are just a short drive aswell.
Good luck with everything..!

[Njrover0216]

I was born in Watertown, NY and lived there for 22 years. Someone mentioned that only 35-80 students graduate per year in Watertown. My graduating class was 485 students. Watertown, Carthage, General Brown, South Jeff are all fairly big schools that are nice. Indian River is not my school of choice due to the influx from Fort Drum. General Brown which is located in Brownville, NY is the place to be now, so I hear. Brownville is only 5 minutes from Watertown. It does snow A LOT and it can be depressing. My advice to you, is to get involved with your community, ski, snowmobile, join a club, this will help get you out and about. The summers are awesome, not to hot not too cold...but way to short. Alexandria Bay is only 30 minutes away and is a beautiful place to go during the summer. Canada is a 40 minute drive up 81. There is a few small beaches within an hour drive, southwick and wescott. Now they are not ocean size beaches by any means. But it is someplace nice to go buy the water and let the kids play in the sand. If you have any questions please PM me anytime.

[Njrover0216]

Originally Posted by iluvfrank

The Watertown area is what you make of it, Some like it, some don't..it offers a wide variety of Winter Activities, ... Summers are short but nice, we have Camping, Fishing, Beaches & Watersports Galore. The area has grown so much within the last year, I'm not sure I want it to continue.
Like Tina said, many new stores and restaurants are opening as I type this.
I like the small hometown feel this area has. All of the schools are decent, I don't feel any are so called "bad".. I'v heard good things Of General Brown, and Sackets Harbor. Also a Catholic School in the City called IHC, has a wonderful reputation. My children have been going to the Indian River School district for about 7 yrs now, and I'm very happy with the school. Its one of the bigger districts, The IRC elementary schools are wonderful. and they have a Big new Intermediate Building just ages 4-5.. South Jeff is also a great district. Its south of Watn. and closer to Syracuse. Which is the hub of the area, I am heading to Syracuse this afternoon myself.
Like earlier noted, Canada is just a hop away, and Ottawa is a Beautiful City with a ton of culture. Lake Placid and the Adirondack Mtns. are just a short drive aswell.
Good luck with everything..!

I had several of friends that went to IHC, which is pretty much the only Catholic High school up there. It has its problems too, mostly drugs. Also just a note to through in there, the electric bills by Niagra Mohawk are outrageous. If you can stand to live that far out, I would buy near Theresa who is powered by someone else,can save you hundreds a month. Also if you decide to live right in Watertown, Knickerbocker and Sherman St elementary schools are the two schools most people would like to send their children too, they are on the south side of town

[Nancy B]

Originally Posted by Sgoldie

It's not unusual for people in the north country to go into Canada for their city fix. Have your passport ready as you'll need it to cross the border by car in another year. Ottawa and Toronto are both spectacular big cities and less than 2hrs away. Kingston, which has Queens college (Canada's Yale), and another which is their version of West Point is just across the border and another fun place to visit. The culture on that side of the border is more sophisticated than you'll find on the US side.

I just wanted to add my two cents worth. I love Watertown. Being Canadian, for many years, I have been going on annual and semi annual shopping trips with girlfriends to your great City. We have so much fun spending money we have and don't have ! lol

I have never felt anything but welcome and have often thought that more of our retail clerks here at home, could take some much needed lessons on manners and customer courtesy from our U.S. neighbours !

Living in Watertown, you are 30 minutes from the Canadian border. Once you reach the border, you are 30 minutes from Kingston, to your West. As mentioned, that is where Queen's University is located as well as Old Fort Henry and RMC (Royal Military College). It truly is a lovely city.

Further West, approximately another 2 hours would bring you to Toronto. Sorry, not too much to contribute on a positive note to that. I have lived there in the past and I have to say I found the overall experience to be very disappointing. The general feeling is that of snootiness and everything is fast paced. A coldness. No warmth, sorry.

If you head East, you'll be in Ottawa in approximately 2 hours. Depending on how far in to the City you want to be. We too have great shopping here and being American with the stronger dollar, you'd have a great time ! A nice day trip for sure.

Best of luck with your decision and your move ! What's not to love ?!

[Njrover0216]

Ahhh Nancy...I used to waitress in Alexandria Bay and Bartend in Clayton at Obriens. We used to have a lot of Canadians come in to tour the towns. That is where I learned about putting vinegar and salt on my french fries. When I used to go to Kingston when I was younger we would go to Stages in Kingston, nice club, roll through the McD's drive thru and get pouton"s(SP), you know the fries with cheese and gravy...yummm. See what you have to look forward to when you move to Northern NY and you have a coutry that close to your disposal!

[Soon2BNYer]

Originally Posted by Njrover0216

Indian River is not my school of choice due to the influx from Fort Drum.

I know I targeted just one sentence, but I am NOT targeting its author. I just have a question about it because it isn't the first time I have heard or read this same sentiment.

We are military and are moving up to Fort Drum. Could someone (hopefully Njrover0216) explain why it is undesirable to have military dependents in the schools?

Please understand that I mean no disrespect, I am just trying to understand why this feeling exists.

We are currently living just outside of Fort Rucker, AL and we have never felt any dislike for the military community here. The "locals" have always embraced us and our children and this place feels more like home than anywhere else I have lived in my 36 years. So it confuses me to hear that "locals" in other areas don't like having the military around or having military kids in the schools.

I look forward to reading the responses so I can understand better.

Thank you.

[Njrover0216]

So hard to put this into words without someone jumping down my throat. First off Indian River would have a graduating class of 100 students if not for FT Drum, which brings it to around 450 if not more. That paints the first picture for you. Most locals in that area are farmers, there is nothing else up there but FT Drum. The military dependents have traveled and seen more then the children up in this area. Before Ft Drum because a full blown military installation, Watertown and its surrounding areas was very historical and a hot spot for tourist. However, FT Drum has changed the north country. The military will say for the better, the locals will tell you they liked it the way it was. Family owned businesses now replaced with Starbucks, Walmarts, Target and a mall. Locals did not ask for these business and honestly could have done without them. The crime rate has skyrocketed since DRum has come in. It has gotten worse over the past few years. Drugs, murders, theft, gangs, etc. I am not saying it is completely FT Drum's fault, some of it has to do with todays children and how they are being raised. However, again this was a small community that was sheltered from these issues. Having said this, I graduated from Watertown High in the 90's and had several of friends that went to Indian River and where military brats. My best friend was a military brat. They talked about the violence in their school, how they had to have a security guard there that checked for weapons, etc. They would talk about how so and so brought a knife to school and how there was yet another fight in the cafeteria. For those reason I recommend people to look into Carthage, General Brown and South Jeff. Notice I didn't say watertown. Watertown has gotten bad now too because of the prison opening up. Many people move up there to be near their family member that is in prison. I support the military and its cause 100%. My husband was an MP at Fort Drum, and it does seem military families have much more issues then the local families did. Either the mom couldn't handle the out of control teen while dad was deployed. Mom/dad cheating on each other causing friction and violence..all this effects a child. I am not saying it doesn't happen everywhere, but the strains on a military marriage are hard. I used to be a military wife, and a lot of those wives got married because they got pregnant by a GI and thought getting married would solve their problems at the age of 19. Down the road only to find problems. Please dont hack me up for saying these things, it is so hard to write it all down on paper and not offend someone.

[Soon2BNYer]

Originally Posted by Njrover0216

So hard to put this into words without someone jumping down my throat. First off Indian River would have a graduating class of 100 students if not for FT Drum, which brings it to around 450 if not more. That paints the first picture for you. Most locals in that area are farmers, there is nothing else up there but FT Drum. The military dependents have traveled and seen more then the children up in this area. Before Ft Drum because a full blown military installation, Watertown and its surrounding areas was very historical and a hot spot for tourist. However, FT Drum has changed the north country. The military will say for the better, the locals will tell you they liked it the way it was. Family owned businesses now replaced with Starbucks, Walmarts, Target and a mall. Locals did not ask for these business and honestly could have done without them. The crime rate has skyrocketed since DRum has come in. It has gotten worse over the past few years. Drugs, murders, theft, gangs, etc. I am not saying it is completely FT Drum's fault, some of it has to do with todays children and how they are being raised. However, again this was a small community that was sheltered from these issues. Having said this, I graduated from Watertown High in the 90's and had several of friends that went to Indian River and where military brats. My best friend was a military brat. They talked about the violence in their school, how they had to have a security guard there that checked for weapons, etc. They would talk about how so and so brought a knife to school and how there was yet another fight in the cafeteria. For those reason I recommend people to look into Carthage, General Brown and South Jeff. Notice I didn't say watertown. Watertown has gotten bad now too because of the prison opening up. Many people move up there to be near their family member that is in prison. I support the military and its cause 100%. My husband was an MP at Fort Drum, and it does seem military families have much more issues then the local families did. Either the mom couldn't handle the out of control teen while dad was deployed. Mom/dad cheating on each other causing friction and violence..all this effects a child. I am not saying it doesn't happen everywhere, but the strains on a military marriage are hard. I used to be a military wife, and a lot of those wives got married because they got pregnant by a GI and thought getting married would solve their problems at the age of 19. Down the road only to find problems. Please dont hack me up for saying these things, it is so hard to write it all down on paper and not offend someone.

Thank you. Honestly, that helped me see things from another perspective. While I know that you do have some generalizations about how folks might feel about the growth due to Drum, I completely see your point. What I mean about generalizations is just that it is hard to tell if all the locals are displeased with the growth, you know. Also, Fort Drum has been in existence for almost 100 years, with most of the expansion beginning in the 1950's.

Fort Drum has been used as a military training site since 1908, however the Army's presence in the North Country may be traced back to the early 1800's.

Pine Camp became Camp Drum in 1951, named after Lt. Gen. Hugh A. Drum who commanded the First Army during World War II. During and after the Korean Conflict a number of units were stationed and trained here to take advantage of the terrain and climate.

The post was designated Fort Drum in 1974 and a permanent garrison was assigned. In April 1980, B Company, 76th Engineer Battalion (Combat Heavy) was reassigned here from Fort Meade, Md. It was followed by the rest of the battalion, less Company D, three years later.

In January 1984, the Department of the Army announced it was studying selected Army posts to house a new light infantry division. On September 11, 1984, the announcement was made that Fort Drum would be the new home of the 10th Light Infantry Division.

(Both quotes found at http://www.drum.army.mil/sites/about/history.asp

Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you, just merely noting why I mentioned the generalizing.

I do see what you are saying about schools and families. The military life isn't easy for children or spouses and conflicts in the home can and do happen. I can't say how it is right now on the civilian side, because I have been military for 11 years. (First for my own enlistment and now as a military wife.) I can say that I think society as a whole has changed. Our parents' generation rebeled against the more stict and "moral" upbringing of the 40s and 50s and raised us to be more free spirited and with less boundries, and sometimes less consequences and less sense of taking responsibilty for ones actions. Now our youngest generation is dealing with the aftermath. As for marriages, well I believe some of the decline in lasting unions does have to do with a loss of our moral compass and the acceptance of selfishness in our "if it feels good, do it and don't worry if it hurts others" society. Of course, this isn't everyone but just my opinion about society in general and as a whole.

Again, thank you so much for sharing your side of things and helping me see it through your eyes. I appreciate the time you have taken.

[Njrover0216]

Fort Drum used to be a training base. Which means the reservists would come do their two weeks then leave. Their whole familes were not there, they stayed on the base, except when they got their break in the middle on the weekends, then they would go out to the bars. Didn't really effect our economy much. and there were not jobs on the base. It was nothing like it is now. There were not many if any active duty, if any. Personally, I loved having Fort Drum come in, I was just becoming a teenager and very much so welcomed the opening of our mall However, my grandparents and people their ages did not like the changes that were happening. They remember the good old days. I personally do not remember anything but what it is now. However, the longer Fort Drum has stayed and the bigger it has gotten...more problems have begun to occur in Watertown. At first it was all fun, new shops, new eateries, more things to do, new jobs...now as time goes on and people cycle in and out, crime is on the rise and the schools are going to be getting overcrowded once they bring the next batch of soldiers up. Also us locals kind of got sick and tired of hearing the soldiers and their familes complain about Watertown and Fort Drum. How much they hate the weather, the people, the place...blah blah blah. The locals definitely support the troops and they open their arms to the ones that are mature and do not put down the area. Some of the young GI's have bad reps for going into the bars and starting fights, getting local girls knocked up then leaving them high and dry. There is just soo much that goes on, as with anywhere you live. I know it is a tough duty assignment. But you have to deal with what you have been given.

I agree with the whole marriage and children thing. Things are changing, and it is not all Fort Drum...however the subject was about Indian River, and as I said when I went to school which was back in the early 90's I had never heard of guns or knives in school, but Indian River had them. Because these children were from Fort Drum and they had seen more of the world than the locals. I would write more, but I am soo tiredNight

[Soon2BNYer]

I understand exactly! I have heard that, as a duty station, you either love Drum or hate it. We plan to love it. Afterall, why not? There is so much to see within a days drive and offers such different scenery then the posts down in the south. (We have been to South Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and Alabama.)

I am from Austin, TX and I know the Fort Hood area (an hour away) has gone way down hill in the last 10 years. I am always hearing about the crime and gang activity now. It is sad!

IMO, I see how "political correctness" in our military has done such an incredible disservice to our younger troops. (Another generalization coming... LOL!) There is a significant amount of new recruits that lacked discipline prior to joining the Army, and they don't get it in basic training. The level of respect has dropped way down and so has the quality of professionalism. Because of that, the immediate areas surrounding a military post, such as Watertown, suffer greatly. It does hurt the locals, as well as the incoming soldiers who ARE professionals and want to be a productive part of the community.

Again, thanks for your insight. And hopefully anyone coming to Watertown, as a civilian or military member, can benefit from our discussion.