How far does one have to move from New York City to get away from "THE ATTITUDE"? (Albany: neighborhood, movies)

[UpstaterInBklyn]

There is indeed a very distinctive "attitude" in NYC and metro counties. At this point, I will not argue that it is neither good or bad. Right or wrong. Just that it can be quite intimidating. The best arguments for this is that it is more a survival tactic. When in NYC you turn it on. When other places, turn it off. Its not needed.

So true.

Case in point: My wife and I are NYC residents and spent the Labor Day weekend in Vermont (The entire state was full of NY'ers that weekend)

Anyway, I'm sitting on the "husband bench" outside of a boutique while my wife is inside shopping. I'm munching on some Jelly-Bellies. Another husband sits down on the bench and we exchange hellos and a share a laugh about being on the "husband bench", because his wife is shopping too. I offer him some jelly beans. He accepts. A few minutes of idle chatter reveals he's from NYC too. The wives come out, almost simultaneously, and we part ways with a friendly goodbye.

Now, my point is, here are two NY'ers, strangers, chatting and sharing some jelly beans. In Vermont. I can't imagine the same thing happening on a bench in a subway station. I mean, I would never say hello and offer a snack to a stranger, and if it happened to me, I'd probably think the guy was crazy or up to something!

You do turn "The Attitude" on and off as needed!

[Thoro]

Not very far Dingler.

South actually, if you want to stay in urban areas, Phila and Wilmington, Del are more sedate, topically. North, try VT and NH. Boston's behavior in pubs etc is also more "open" comparatively. NYC is open too, but for different and other definitive reasons. NYC is unique in many ways, however just what that 'uniqueness" entails is to be debated. Living conditions, try Third World or turn of the century still tenement style personal space. Everyone and everything is in a person's face. Fun.....for a while. However, there are some good things about NYC, we can deal with that too.

But many here have already answered your question (and theirs) in quibbling over NYC. The fact that they (former residents) are not there anymore for myriad reasons should tell you just what is wrong with NYC. It's nothing new, it's been going on for decades.

Most NYer's I find are miserable whereever they go, and even in NY most of the time. The problem is they so often have to go elsewhere. Tell you anything?

[Thoro]

It always seems to be the default, it's not pc yet to mention all the volumes of Islamic, Indian, Pakistani, Hassidic and Orthodox Jews of every description Hispanics of all races, mixed and etc, in Brooklyn, Upper Manhattan, et al, but the traditional Irish/Italian turn of the 19th C blame (and condescension) towards those 2 groups is still around. For some reasons it's safe that they catch it. (sarcasm)Ireland sure was a very poor country back then, and well those "Italians" came from the West Virginia's of the day parts of extreme S Italy and Sicily before the World Wars. THey identified with "regions" then not as Italians, most of whom from the better parts of that country stayed home and built Modern Italy.

Even if we have the Arab/Islamic/Jewish/Israeli/Iranian strife running the world, it's still better to defer to those two groups the Italians and Irish to blame for all NY's ills past and present. Get it? What chickens....

NY is probably the MOST ethnic and inbred racist city I've ever visited or lived in. Of course the insulated rich upper 2% of the population won't ever see that, as Leona said, such things are for the little people. Well NYC is composed vastly of very little people, about 98% of it. NO middle class, entered Third World status decades ago.

Both Irish/Italian are virtually dieing groups in Brooklyn, Staten, still kinda moving on but mostly mixed with other Euro groups today.

They of course DID contribute to the NYC attitude but so did many of the other previous groups give way to the profile of "Gangs of NY".

NYC is fast becoming not a European descended city as a whole, it's very Semitic (including arabs) as well as people of color from all around the world. But the stereotypcial NYC attitude that has been so promoted by NYC's own media is quite relic now with the backdrop of totally different multitiudes from very different parts of the world than came back during the late 19th and early 20 C.

For some reason though NYC likes to keep one foot stuck back there although it's a whole new city and world today. PC you know, so as not to agitate the Middle Eastern groups. It's to be pc at others' expense, don't want to agitate the real groups with ancient hatreds that have caused the massive destruction that NYC has experienced on top of an already decrepit infrasctructure.

So it's so much safer but typical to drag in the Irish and Italians of 1900. What sleaze!

[StuyTownRefugee]

Originally Posted by Dingler

The famous New York Attitude has an historical beginning. People use to complain about the attitude of the people in New York way back in the 1600s. It has developed over time. I actually feel and see it most in the suburbs and in the outer Boroughs. Queens, Long Island, Close In New Jersey and Staten Island. I think some of it comes from the Italian background of many of the people who have lived in New York for generations.

My question still stands.

Actually not far, to answer your question. Just past Northern NJ.

Now we've had newer groups attempting to destroy all what the former groups have built over the centuries, but the atmosphere today is one of more paranoia and fear, loss of privacy and surveillance from the destruction caused by newer groups, that run completely counter to Western civilization. Is the current assessment of reason for the attitude going to just villify the former groups who hardly have presence any longer for the sake of averting Jihad?? 3,000 killed at once en masse, who do you blame, Irish, Italians, or Saudis and assorted Middle Easterners?

Of course honesty has never been a signature mark for NY. Neither has common sense.

Assuming the attitude you suggest is negative,

What do you think the current immigrant groups will contribute to this NY attitude? negative or positive will have on the city? I suppose since so many do not speak English nor have a need nor desire to, they can conduct their lives totally apart from the NYers who still judge by the former groups from before resulting in even more of a very fragmented city.

How many New Yorks will there be?

Italians didn't arrive until very late 1800s, a character had already been forged. Yet you state people have complained about it since the 1600s.

The historical attitude was first laid down by the Dutch then British colonial hegemonies, the latter sort of overwhelmed the former in takeover, a very sleazy operation. New Amsterdam was quite a trading post, both in slaves and commodities, ripped off the Indians that were pawns between the two invaders. The foundation was laid for a very irreverent society thru colonialism. IIRC, it attracted many of the vagrants and vagabonds scouting around the New World for riches or trinkets. IIRC, the first structure on Manhattan island built by the Dutch was a mental institutions or insane asylum to accomodate a migration of virtual scoundrels and lowlifes. It's quite well known the former Empires, that later merged Britain and Netherlands, let their undesirables out to help claim territories and bring in "finds" for the European Kings and Queens of the day. Peter Stuyvesant was apparently drunk when notification came from the invading British they had taken the city. He was, where else? In the Bowery, in a daze.

As in "Gangs of NY", the original tumultous environment would soon be home to opportunistic Germans, Poles, and above all the Irish who were so exploited by the Brits both at home and here.

Crime, depravity, and immorality seemed to be the order of the city from its inception, either from New Netherlands (without speaking of all the positive things the Dutch did regarding settlements and irrigation, water barriers, farms) New Amsterdam (like Amsterdam today a bit risque') then into being "New York".

The depravity of the abused Irish sort of fit right in with the debased feudal city system, and they took up where the formers like English pirates, et al, had pioneered under the blessings of the King.

They just followed the suit already laid out, criminal activity, mostly petty by today's standards, thieveing and fighting for survival that all mirrored the deceit already established by the rulers and ruling classes. Italians didn't arrive in any significant numbers until late 1800s.

Prior to that Venetian, Florentine and Genovese merchants had ventured in as business partners with much of the Dutch and British for their opportunities to bring various industries and wares (such as silk and wines) to the new colonies, as they did in Virginia.

After various periods of political upheavals in most of Europe and after Napoleaon, the German Lands, Italy, etc, the poor from those evolving societies and their lesser specific regions began to arrive.

Those that came like the Irish tended to fit along the same patterns, entering those same nabes, then came a major thrust of Hebrews who also experienced the same.

The same patterns from the beginnings helped form the personality of NY you allude to which each group adding their influences with the overwhelming ethos that connected them all to make money. The whole course has been above all money driven from the start. To blame one particular group is nonsense, for they all from the early Dutch have laid the character foundation that evolved. The Dutch influence is still present in parts of NYC, the historical old areas, the names are still around. Not everything Holland and Britain brought was good, they both managed a far reaching slave market that undoubtedly left its scars on those that came later. In fact it's still there today reflected in living conditions and the dominance of corporate vs worker and unions.

Now we've had newer groups attempting to destroy all what the former groups have built over the centuries, but the atmosphere today is one of more paranoia and fear, loss of privacy and surveillance from the destruction caused by newer groups, that run completely counter to Western civilization. Is the current assessment of reason for the attitude going to just villify the former groups who hardly have presence any longer for the sake of averting Jihad?? 3,000 killed at once en masse, who do you blame, Irish, Italians, or Saudis?

Of course honesty has never been a signature of NY. So I ask you again,

What do you think the current immigrant groups will contribute to this NY attitude? negative or positive will have on the city? I suppose since so many do not speak English nor have a need nor desire to, they can conduct their lives totally apart from the NYers who still judge by the former groups from before resulting in a very fragmented city.

How many New Yorks will emerge in the near future?

[migee]

North Dakota...

[thehunter]

North or West of Westchester, Putnam, Orange and Rockland Counties.

[CONNOR'SMAMA]

Originally Posted by NaturalBornDaddy

Here are 50 reasons why I tolerate that NYC "attitude", besides the fact that I was born and raised here.

1) One Fish Two Fish on 97th and Madison
2) The view of Manhattan on the horizon as you return from a drive down south.
3) Mid December on Fifth Ave. looking into Rockefeller Plaza at the Christmas Tree with your family.
4) Jackson Hole on 85th and Columbus.
5) Nell's on West 14th St.
6) The aroma of peanuts roasting as you come out of the subway.
7) Some of the most beautiful women in the world.
8) 2 outs, bottom of the 9th, Yankee Stadium after somebody just hit the winning homerun.
9) The friendliest bartenders in the world.
10) McDonald's without mustard.
11) The best spanish food outside of Puerto Rico.
12) Orchard Beach in June
13) City Island on payday.
14) The Empire State Building.
15) Madison Square Garden.
16) Willie's Burgers on 145th st. and Eighth Ave.
17) Is there a better place for steak than Peter Luger?
18) Real Bagels
19) Bodegas
20) Empire Skates in Brooklyn
21) Brooklyn
22) Junior's Cheesecakes
23) White Castle's at 4:30 in the morning
24) Shea Stadium on Merengue Night.
25) The San Genaro Feast
26) The Roosevelt Island Tram
27) Oh my God, Central Park
28) The Bronx Zoo
29) Caroline's, Dangerfield's, Catch a Rising Star
30) The Port Authority Bowling Lanes after 9:00pm
31) Dallas BBQ's on 72nd st.
32) 7 miles of shoreline in The Rockaways.
33) The Copacabana
34) The Apollo
35) The Statue of Liberty
36) Washington Square Park
37) Rucker Park, home of "The GOAT".
38) You live in the birthplace of Hip Hop
39) Donald Trump isn't done yet.
40) Did I mention the women.
41) Some of the greatest people in the world live here.
42) Some cabbies are no longer scared to death of Black people.
43) The most unhealthy, best tasting Chinese food outside of China.
44) Coney Island
45) The Best, hands down Best, barbers in the country.
46) Street vendors as far as the eye can see.
47) Grand Central, Port Authority, LaGuardia and JFK Airports only minutes away.
48) Where else can you sit completely undisturbed enough to fall asleep on a crowded subway, and yet unable to sleep all alone in your own apartment?
49) Where else do complete strangers line up to give blood just because.
50) Once again, the women.

Need I say more?

THERE'S NO BETTER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT! NYC ROCKS

[CONNOR'SMAMA]

I THINK "THE ATTITUDE" HAS A LOT TO DO WITH YOUR ATTITUDE NEW YORKERS ARE THE BEST I LIVED IN NYC FOR 7 YEARS AND HAVE NOTHING BUT GREAT EXPERIENCES IS FANTASTIC TO LIVE IN SUCH A CITY WITH "THE ATTITUDE" LOVE IT. IF YOU ARE FRIENDLY NEW YORKERS ARE THE BEST PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY BUT IF YOU ARE SHY AND PLAIN DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO WAIT AND ASK WHAT YOU NEED THERE'S NO TIME FOR THAT IS GREAT TO BE ABLE TO ADAPT TO SUCH A FAST PACED WORLD AND STILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A PICNIC IN CENTRAL PARK AND RELAX.
I RECENTLY MOVED AN HOUR AND TWENTY MINUTES FROM THE CITY AND LIFE IS SOO DIFERENT, LIKE PEPLE DON'T SAY HELLO IN THE SUPERMARKET, BOOKSTORE OR IN THE COOFFE SHOP JUST TO BE FRIENDLY. IN THE CITY YOU CAN MAKE LOTS OF FRIENDS EASILY AND IN SMALLER TOWNS (LIKE IN COUNTRY-LAND WHERE I LIVE) IS MUCH HARDER. I MISS THE CITY

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by Dingler

I love visiting New York City but would never want to live there. But I could picture retiring to New York State to be close by the City for all it has to offer. When I was younger I interviewed for quite a few jobs at companies in suburban New York and New Jersey and found the people brash. They had that famous New York and New Jersey attitude. I always wondered how far one has to get away from New York City before the majority of people are more low keyed, friendly and lack that famous City attitude.

(Yes, I know many people living in New York are friendly nice people, but I still feel THE ATTITUDE)

I spend alot of time in Buffalo, NY and find the people in that City to be so different than those in New York City. Though I would like to move closer to the City but far from the attitude.

Close to New York City but far from THE ATTITUDE, where?

Dingler, I grew up 25 miles from NYC. My mother was raised in the city. I came here to college and found out how wonderful the people in Buffalo/Erie County/WNY were and never left. Married a Buffalo boy... I have been here almost 40 years. I wouldn't move back to the NY area if I was paid to. Visiting family is stressful!!

I think you have to be north and west of a line going from Binghamton to Syracuse (I-81) to lose "the attitude"... the farther west, the better... but out of the burbs taken over by non-locals ( read: all new developments of high cost)

[OldManPotter]

Ithaca, NY - Very different, but it has metro feel...