Plattsburgh, NY area (Dickinson: school, teach, driving)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by wondertrev

1) The Regents exam applies only in that it seems to be a prerequisite for admission to SUNY 4-year colleges. However, the test is a joke. The SAT/ACT/AP tests are much more valid predictors of academic success, yet students/teachers/parents get all excited over a test that proves only that you're one evoluntionary step beyond an orangutan.

2) The notion that you can either teach or not would invalidate the requirement for silly ed. classes and certifications. I taught college for several years before teaching HS, and was nominated for a state teacher of the year award long before I finished my silly ed classes. Yes, my dad was a prof, too, so that can run in the family, just as teaching in the publik skoolz can (the standards are just higher).

3) Actually, NoDaks Indian population isn't that large. Most drop out prior to graduation, and don't bother to test. Most of the rest go to open-admissions tribal colleges (kinda like CUNY).

4) The fact that only the best and brightest take the tests bothers me not a whit. As Charles Murray states in "Real Education," many folks in college have no business being there.

Again, you are comparing Apples to oranges.

As for regents, it doesn't make sense to compare that to the SAT/ACT or any other standardized test due to the fact that the regents tests are pretty much final exams for those trying to get a Regents diploma. so, why would someone compare the two when they serve different purposes? Also, NY consistently has one of the highest percentages of students taking AP exams.

My point about the calling is that you either have or you don't. That doesn't mean that what Education majors do should be disregarded and that structure thrown out the door.

Also, the fact that North Dakota's Native population seems to be "expendable" from what you say in terms of education, seems to show a problem with trying to educated said students of that backgrounds. So, that doesn't necessarily make them look good, especially since that gorup makes up about 5% of that state's population and should be able to have more outreach in terms of educating them. They are the state's biggest "minority" group too. By the way, there are some very good CUNY programs and the same SUNY programs as well.

Lastly, again it doesn't make sense in terms of comparing the two states due to the factors given and even by using that quote, what about the other 96% of college bound ND students that do not take the SAT and that do take the ACT, which again has an emphasis in certain state where the students are more apt to go to state colleges and universities? This is even more note worthy as ND isn't necessarily known for it's state colleges and universities and that in no means is stated to offend those schools.

BTW- You quoting Charles Murray of all people is very interesting indeed, considering what he is associated with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(author)


Also, I think this interesting article could shine light on his quote in a way that many people do not think about: At the elite colleges - dim white kids - The Boston Globe

[ckhthankgod]

To get back on topic though, I think the ability to get a good education at most of the Plattsburgh area public school districts is definitely there.

I also wonder if some kids go across Lake Champlain to Rice in South Burlington for a Catholic education?

[wondertrev]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Also, NY consistently has one of the highest percentages of students taking AP exams.

This is even more note worthy as ND isn't necessarily known for it's state colleges and universities and that in no means is stated to offend those schools.

BTW- You quoting Charles Murray of all people is very interesting indeed, considering what he is associated with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(author)


Also, I think this interesting article could shine light on his quote in a way that many people do not think about: At the elite colleges - dim white kids - The Boston Globe

1) How many kids pass the AP exams? The College Board is getting frustrated by the volume of kids taking the classes.Many districts encourage the classes, but very, very get 4-5s.

2) ND has a problem bright kids leaving for U of Minn, Nebraska, etc... UND, NDSU has good ag and aviation programs, but that's about it.Needless to say, my kid is unlikely to go there.

3) Wikipedia is a really bad source. Most people who criticize Murray have never read his books. His comments about race are no different than Larry Summer's re: the merepossibility there may be real differences between men and women in the sciences.

4) Yes, there are many, many dipsticks at good colleges. See "The Price of Education" for detailed explanation of this phenomenon.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by wondertrev

1) How many kids pass the AP exams? The College Board is getting frustrated by the volume of kids taking the classes.Many districts encourage the classes, but very, very get 4-5s.

2) ND has a problem bright kids leaving for U of Minn, Nebraska, etc... UND, NDSU has good ag and aviation programs, but that's about it.Needless to say, my kid is unlikely to go there.

3) Wikipedia is a really bad source. Most people who criticize Murray have never read his books. His comments about race are no different than Larry Summer's re: the merepossibility there may be real differences between men and women in the sciences.

4) Yes, there are many, many dipsticks at good colleges. See "The Price of Education" for detailed explanation of this phenomenon.

Check this out: Md. Leads U.S. in Passing Rates on AP Exams - washingtonpost.com

NY schoolkids do A-OK on AP tests - NYPOST.com

More Students Get Passing Scores on AP Tests - US News and World Report

Also, I think the controversy in such comments is that they may or may not account for environmental, familial, social and economic aspects, as well as the possibility of improving one's IQ or knowledge in such subjects as well.

BTW-I try to be careful with Wikipedia as well and try to get articles with other references included if I use something from that site. You also have to see through the fake articles, which sometimes is very obvious on there.

[nunoco]

Originally Posted by wondertrev

Public schools are like public pools; they have to let everyone in, and many I'd rather not have her associate with.

I see where you're coming from. I am reminded of this: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...l?corder=&pg=1

And the Charles Murray reference (read The Bell Curve, and don't need to read anything else, as that book proved he is a quack) reminded me of this: Curveball

[seven up]

Originally Posted by wondertrev

Am off to North Dakota, so I doubt we'll have many of the problems you mention.

(mundane)

See ya !

[plattsburgher]

in the Dakotas, or wherever you end up teaching, you definitely will not have the same problems that you have here. However, you may find that you have very different and even worse problems................There is no perfect school system, no perfect community, no perfect city or state. Every place has its positives and negatives. Hopefully the Dakotas will have more positives than the NYS system, but IMO very doubtful. Because of the unions, NY attracts and keeps the best of the best.

Have to tell something that was passed to me by a relative who works for the airline industry regarding the famous USAir jet landing in the Hudson with no loss of life..............If not for unions, the fate of those passengers might have been much, much different indeed. I do believe this to be true......

The airlines are required to have a specific amount of safety training days dedicated by their unions at the airlines' expense (which they have tried to change more than once......) I have a relative who has to retrain every year at the airline's expense out of town to review evacuation routes and new airplane exits due to newer models and makes of airplanes, etc......So the pilot, copilot, and flight crews were recently refreshed on safety procedures per union rules. The fire fighters and police boats who came immediately to the aid of that flight were all union employees with mandated updates as well. The ferry pilots on regular duty that day and employees are all NY union employees who must practice drills and emergencies within a specific time period to retain their jobs. This was enforced to the letter post 9-11-01 per union employees and bosses. You can belittle union rules and regs all you like, but if that plane had landed in any other spot or river in the US with a different (non-union) crew like Midwest, Spirit or Southwest, I don't know that the pilot, crew would have had the expertise or experience to successfully land and know what to do upon landing that plane. I also don't know that any other set of firefighters or police would have taken such expedient action to help in the water, or that any other set of ferry boats would have immediately stopped to successfully evacuate that planeload of passengers......in the Great Lakes, the Mississippi, the Chesapeake Bay, the Seattle/San Fran Bay????? Every person involved in that successful rescue was a union employee......

You can belittle NY state union teachers all you like, but the ones I know take utmost pride in their work, their children, and their classrooms.........for good reason. Plattsburgh is lucky to have the best of the best and other districts have modeled their own schools after ours.......

Think it is great that you have such a positive attitude going into a new place, though.............It is always a plus to have new ideas, outlooks, and fresh perspectives. It is what stimulates positive changes in any environment.....Best of luck to you.

[wondertrev]

Will be teaching at the local university. Enjoyed Plattsburgh, but after 6 years or so, I was ready to move. If only everything north of Albany was a separate state.....

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by wondertrev

Will be teaching at the local university. Enjoyed Plattsburgh, but after 6 years or so, I was ready to move. If only everything north of Albany was a separate state.....

Heck, you could say anything north of Westchester & Rockland Counties or if there was some more reform in certain areas of government at various levels.

[bmd1729]

I have lived in Keeseville since 1996 when I moved there from the Washington DC area. There is no more quaint and friendly village in the Plattsburgh area and I take offense to those disparaging it when they don't live here. I own a business on Front Street and all the business owners know one another and are working toward making Keeseville a warm and welcoming place for our residents and tourists. The Ausable Valley School District is the best kept secret in the North Country--ask professional educators and the faculty at Plattsburgh State who send their student teachers to our district for mentoring and experience. We have a nationally recognized Principal at Keeseville Elementary and have a Superintendent that graduated from AVCS and has his own children in the disctrict. Please don't rely on opinions from people that aren't living in the community! We have a great village and it's getting better every day!