Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are a multitude of reasons but the main one has to do with the fact the taxes are so high and that has outpriced people and companies that then run to the lesser developed/cheaper areas of the country. Plus, although no politician will admit it, NYC also drains a lot of the upstate monies and in turn, less is spread around the state so updating a lot of areas is slow and behind the times. Only recently have the powers that be realized ***whoops***, while we were sitting on our laurels, the floodgates opened and people began moving away in droves. Now, there is some major reconstruction/rehabing of cities across the state that have layed dormat for decades.....too much too late? Only time will tell.....
And remember, NY was one of the fastest developed/populated state within the original 13 colonies (NC has 9 million people, 165 per square mile; NY, 19 million people, 2000 per square mile with both being roughly the same size acreage-wise 2006 stats) and after a few centuries, it's caught up with us. We're a worn out state in a lot of ways that drew both the good and the bad to it's soil and bringing back to it's glory financial will probably never happen in the youngest posters' lifetime, but NYC will always be a beacon for the masses and we will always have some of the most gorgeous countryside and natural resources you will find anywhere.
A somewhat romaticized look at our predicament but stemming the flow out of the state is a monumental problem for evey community with the exception of the City and people are working on it dilgently within the state. Having become the whipping boy of dying states does nothing but get the hair on the back of our necks up as most residents know we have slipped a notch or two or three....but it's still home and we love her!
As you point out, the NYC area is the engine that drives NYS. I sometimes think that people in that area think NYS ends at Westchester and Orange counties. NYS could be just like other states except the 3 guys that run it; Bruno, Silver and the governor do whatever they feel like behind closed doors with whom they feel like doing business with.
Just hang on there. When NC gets as crowded with everyone from NY and everywhere else, your taxes will also end up around 7,000/yr or more. Then NC will be the stupid place to be. I'm not sure it wont happen before the end of your current generation.
Yes, but the time it takes that to happen will be years. In the meantime, taxes in NY and LI will go up even further. Living in the now, with cheaper taxes lets me save more money for my retirement, college, etc… As I said, the old line cities were the place to be back then. And again, if it happens before the end of my generation, what will taxes be like in NY at that time?
Just wait. I can speak with authority on NY as well as Charlotte. I have spent 22 years in NY and 23 yrs in and around Charlotte. I have seen Charlotte grow from a little Nothing town into a mega-tropolis. It CAN NOT and WILL NOT last. No matter how smart you think people are there and no matter how dumb people in NY are. When the infrastructure gets maxed out. And it will. the taxes will have to go up the same as NY. Then people will move somewhere else leaving NC in the dust. Its not a dumb/smart thing at all. There is nothing at all wrong with any part of NY. Its just that NC began offering free-tax breaks and all the companies went, then the people followed. The large NY metro areas couldnt possibly maintain or rebuild without the tax base and no politician can fix that without the tax base no matter how smart unless people are willing to go without entitlements or services.
The South will have greater problems when everyone leaves because they are already at a disadvantage. meaning they are building cheap constructed housing and office parks at a very dangerous rate. At least the older houses in the North are far better constructed and the road system is already in place. The average shelf life of an average house in Charlotte is 15 or 20 years before it starts needing ALOT of repairs. You are foolish if you deny that.
Hey, one final thing. If anyone thinks people or politicians are dumb in NY? look no further than ole' JIM BLACK in NC. One of the dumbest pol's in the history of this nation. (he's going to be spending a bunch of time behind bars)
What makes you think it can’t last? This is not your father’s South any more.
NC has a lot more room to develop and from the stand point of the NYC area, it is designed for smarter growth than that area was. And the taxes throughout NYS are too high to compete with any new area in the South, Mid-West or West. And what’s wrong with new roads vs. the old ones up north? Is older better?
In reference to new houses vs. old, what makes you say they will not last as long as a house built in the north 50 to 80 years ago?
Is it the new methods of construction based on technology?
Is it the new materials like engineered lumber that are stronger that regular wood?
Is it the more stringent building codes in place now, rather than the ones in place 80 years ago?
Is it the newer window, door, insulation and whether barriers that are used today?
Specifically, what is going to fail after 15 or 20 years?
I’ve pulled wood that was broken, warped, split, etc… from my 60 year house that did that for no other reason except that it was old.
One only had to look on LI for more than NY’s share of crooked politicians, let alone the 3 guys that actually run NYS – Bruno, Silver and the governor.
Well, U of R is building a research facility that is adding over 500 new jobs. There is also a company taking over a Kodak building that is creating around 500 new jobs averaging around 75k per salary. I'd say thats a good start. There are also small to medium sized "tech" places that are adding a few jobs here and there.
Well that is a great start! I hope it works out! What types of jobs? That is exactly the type of news I like to hear.
Well, U of R is building a research facility that is adding over 500 new jobs. There is also a company taking over a Kodak building that is creating around 500 new jobs averaging around 75k per salary. I'd say thats a good start. There are also small to medium sized "tech" places that are adding a few jobs here and there.
Really? I must not have heard about these. No offense, but I don't recall much news about these new jobs (I live in Rochester). I remember when Harris Corp (maker of military radios) was just starting to get the big contracts a few years ago, MANY local techs & engineers (myself included) applied for all the new jobs being created (and there were new jobs created). There were MANY more people applying than available jobs. It's a very tough job market here for those 75K positions.
I too agree this is good news, and I would love to know more about these new companies & jobs being added to the area.
What is the difficult thing to comprehend regarding new job creation always revolves around the cost of doing business in NYS. In simplistic terms, taxes are not paid by the business, but passed on to the consumer. When all the fees and property taxes and mandated stuff is totaled up, during economic downturns some NYS businesses struggle to stay competitive.
And when these new jobs are added based on government incentives (tax breaks), who pays the difference? (again simplistic, but...) The existing businesses pay the dif. What incentive is there for the existing businesses to add more jobs outside of maintaining the business... or sauntering up to the trough?
its because number 1. ny sucks. number 2. people are tired of living here, and most young people want to get away and see the world. most people wanna go to california, or florida, some to new england. 3. ny sucks. 4. if most of them do actually stay in state for college its because they get more state aid if they graduate from a ny highschool and attend a ny state college. then after that they wanna leave anyways, because ny sucks. ..oh yeah. ny sucks!
i graduated in june from a beacon highschool in beacon,ny. i am going to SUNY dutchess which is a community school, i planned on this because its the cheapest one for the same education. but after the 2 yrs at dcc. im out. i wanna go experience life, and what its like in other states, life especially here in dutchess county is so boring, theres nothing great here, and i dont love anything about it. it maybe different for the kids who grow up in lake george/albany area, or maybe for kids out it rodchester. but im sure most kids who grow up in buffalo are extremely tired of SNOW, and probably wanna go to florida, or somewhere alot warmer. im sure kids who grow up in florida, or in southern cali would probably love to move to new york/new england and actually get to play in the snow.
people are always leaving for one reason or another hoping to find something GREAT. but the grass really is always greener on the other side. you cant live in paradise forever. you cant stay on vacation forever either. if you could, hell we all would.
but just because people are leaving the state, doesnt mean other people aren't moving right on in.
i cant wait to get the heck outta here. but i bet some kid in the middle of colorado is saying the same thing.
Really? I must not have heard about these. No offense, but I don't recall much news about these new jobs (I live in Rochester). I remember when Harris Corp (maker of military radios) was just starting to get the big contracts a few years ago, MANY local techs & engineers (myself included) applied for all the new jobs being created (and there were new jobs created). There were MANY more people applying than available jobs. It's a very tough job market here for those 75K positions.
I too agree this is good news, and I would love to know more about these new companies & jobs being added to the area.
What is the difficult thing to comprehend regarding new job creation always revolves around the cost of doing business in NYS. In simplistic terms, taxes are not paid by the business, but passed on to the consumer. When all the fees and property taxes and mandated stuff is totaled up, during economic downturns some NYS businesses struggle to stay competitive.
And when these new jobs are added based on government incentives (tax breaks), who pays the difference? (again simplistic, but...) The existing businesses pay the dif. What incentive is there for the existing businesses to add more jobs outside of maintaining the business... or sauntering up to the trough?
These were announced about 3-4 months ago I'd say. If I could remember the company taking over the Kodak facility I'd link it. The U of R jobs are part of a research facility that is going up on the River campus. They have started construction on it. These are probably medical research jobs so I don't know if that would be up your river or not.
When was the last time you looked at the Harris openings? They have been hiring a few younger people for positions with decent pay recently. Their website shows a few openings in this area now. You just need to be able to hold a government clearance though. This would put off some people.
You mention tax incentives. I was looking at the incentives that the sematech facility got in Albany. It looks like each job brought in by sematech cost tax payers around 1 million dollars. I dont know what its like in other areas though.
These were announced about 3-4 months ago I'd say. If I could remember the company taking over the Kodak facility I'd link it. The U of R jobs are part of a research facility that is going up on the River campus. They have started construction on it. These are probably medical research jobs so I don't know if that would be up your river or not.
When was the last time you looked at the Harris openings? They have been hiring a few younger people for positions with decent pay recently. Their website shows a few openings in this area now. You just need to be able to hold a government clearance though. This would put off some people.
You mention tax incentives. I was looking at the incentives that the sematech facility got in Albany. It looks like each job brought in by sematech cost tax payers around 1 million dollars. I dont know what its like in other areas though.
Thanks for the reply. I agree with your position there are decent jobs here, I only add to that thought those jobs are not as plentiful as in other places. Plus the people still here looking for a better job all apply for the same openings, which is not a bad thing... just a harder job market.
I am thrilled to find a post addressing the issue of New York's youth leaving. I am 23 yrs old and started looking at this site because I plan to move to Orlando. My husband and I are both college graduates and we are choosing to leave Rockland behind. I grew up here and though I am nervous to move on I know that it is my best shot at having an affordable home. My brother who is 28 yrs old, is a police officer who is starting his family and also moving from NYC. He and I constantly talking about leaving, we both wish that we could stay but know it is just not possible. It's just to bad. I will miss it here..except the snow!!
my analogy for a young person getting a job in upstate NY:
It is simple, really. The objective is similar to buying a couch/sofa. No, not all of us need a sofa/couch (job) to live comfortably but it sure makes it easier. So in NY, we have to climb through the jungle, swim across shark-infested waters, possibly lose a limb in the process to find a place that even sells sofas/couches where when we do, it is usually an ugly colored plaid and sells for 18,000. However, in other parts of the country, we just simply have to drive to a store and pick out the sofa that is usually on sale for 600 and is beautiful and nice and plus, there is free delivery.
My moral....not many people will pay 18k for a plaid ugly couch/sofa.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
