New York's Young People Fleeing the State (Rochester, Albany: sale, new house)

[averagenyjoe]

Originally Posted by Redd Jedd

........ Now I pay $1300 on a bigger house in either of those locations, while making as much as I did working in NYC (in computer support).

.

Just hang on there. When NC gets as crowded with everyone from NY and everywhere else, your taxes will also end up around 7,000/yr or more. Then NC will be the stupid place to be. I'm not sure it wont happen before the end of your current generation.

[averagenyjoe]

Just wait. I can speak with authority on NY as well as Charlotte. I have spent 22 years in NY and 23 yrs in and around Charlotte. I have seen Charlotte grow from a little Nothing town into a mega-tropolis. It CAN NOT and WILL NOT last. No matter how smart you think people are there and no matter how dumb people in NY are. When the infrastructure gets maxed out. And it will. the taxes will have to go up the same as NY. Then people will move somewhere else leaving NC in the dust. Its not a dumb/smart thing at all. There is nothing at all wrong with any part of NY. Its just that NC began offering free-tax breaks and all the companies went, then the people followed. The large NY metro areas couldnt possibly maintain or rebuild without the tax base and no politician can fix that without the tax base no matter how smart unless people are willing to go without entitlements or services.
The South will have greater problems when everyone leaves because they are already at a disadvantage. meaning they are building cheap constructed housing and office parks at a very dangerous rate. At least the older houses in the North are far better constructed and the road system is already in place. The average shelf life of an average house in Charlotte is 15 or 20 years before it starts needing ALOT of repairs. You are foolish if you deny that.
Hey, one final thing. If anyone thinks people or politicians are dumb in NY? look no further than ole' JIM BLACK in NC. One of the dumbest pol's in the history of this nation. (he's going to be spending a bunch of time behind bars)

[pepper35]

Originally Posted by garmin239

Buffalo has all of those things.
The things that it doesnt have I would not want. A "modern" downtown? I find new architecture to be extremely boring and bland. Those high end stores I could care less about. In WNY I can get high end european clothing at stores if I wanted to. Buffalo has bars, restaurants, a light rail and airport. Buffalo has lakes, museums sports, etc. To tell you the truth I don't find a "vibrant" feel when I'm in places like Charlotte. I get a cheap bland suburban feel when I'm in a city like that.
I'll take a northeastern city with character and a unique feel over a homogeneous cheaply built area like Charlotte.
Buffalo has all of these things you mention about Charlotte but for some reason you seem to think that newer = better. Newer does not = better.
People are still attracted to Buffalo because it is a unique area with an identity. When Charlotte stops being a hot spot and the jobs and people leave it will be a ghost town since there is not much that gives it an identity. It will happen. Every area has its ups and downs.

You find new architecture boring and bland because you don't have it. The things that Buffalo does not have, you do not want. That sums it up in a nutshell. You havent experienced anything else.
The people that are attracted to Buffalo are already there. The trick is to convince non residents to move there. That has been the problem of WNY and other Rust belt and NE cities which is apparent from the city's declining population.
Look at cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit, they also have half the population they had in the 1950 and 1960s due to lack of jobs and a mobile society that moved on to better job opps other places. It will take alot to get people back or thinking differently when taxes are lower somewhere else and they can make the same money based against cost of living.

[pepper35]

Originally Posted by averagenyjoe

Just wait. I can speak with authority on NY as well as Charlotte. I have spent 22 years in NY and 23 yrs in and around Charlotte. I have seen Charlotte grow from a little Nothing town into a mega-tropolis. It CAN NOT and WILL NOT last. No matter how smart you think people are there and no matter how dumb people in NY are. When the infrastructure gets maxed out. And it will. the taxes will have to go up the same as NY. Then people will move somewhere else leaving NC in the dust. Its not a dumb/smart thing at all. There is nothing at all wrong with any part of NY. Its just that NC began offering free-tax breaks and all the companies went, then the people followed. The large NY metro areas couldnt possibly maintain or rebuild without the tax base and no politician can fix that without the tax base no matter how smart unless people are willing to go without entitlements or services.
The South will have greater problems when everyone leaves because they are already at a disadvantage. meaning they are building cheap constructed housing and office parks at a very dangerous rate. At least the older houses in the North are far better constructed and the road system is already in place. The average shelf life of an average house in Charlotte is 15 or 20 years before it starts needing ALOT of repairs. You are foolish if you deny that.
Hey, one final thing. If anyone thinks people or politicians are dumb in NY? look no further than ole' JIM BLACK in NC. One of the dumbest pol's in the history of this nation. (he's going to be spending a bunch of time behind bars)

I won't deny that any old home anywhere, whether Charlotte, Topeka, or NJ is better built than a new home. But it is not a 'south' problem only, builders aren't just regional, they are generally national. So that problem is everywhere. The shelf life as you say, is 15 to 20 years any place.
Taxes will go up here as they do there and high growth cities will need to build new infastructure while you are plugging potholes and fixing aging sewer systems and gas lines. Older cities have already gonr through what newer growth cities are going through right now. I just choose to be somewhere that will experience the growth for 20 to 30 years and not be in a city that is currently in a trough.
You are predicting the souths problems after everyone leaves? Putting the cart before the horse a bit aren't we?
Its not a NC vs NY debate and you can slam JBlack all you want. He made mistakes and will get what he deserves. Guiliani was a good mayor but Koch made alot of mistakes. There aren't alot of cities in the US that declared bankruptcy though.

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by pepper35

You find new architecture boring and bland because you don't have it. The things that Buffalo does not have, you do not want. That sums it up in a nutshell. You havent experienced anything else.
The people that are attracted to Buffalo are already there. The trick is to convince non residents to move there. That has been the problem of WNY and other Rust belt and NE cities which is apparent from the city's declining population.
Look at cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit, they also have half the population they had in the 1950 and 1960s due to lack of jobs and a mobile society that moved on to better job opps other places. It will take alot to get people back or thinking differently when taxes are lower somewhere else and they can make the same money based against cost of living.

No, I find new architecture boring and bland because of personal opinion. Not because I don't have it. I have experienced plenty of other things. I have traveled more places than I can count for work so don't tell me I havent experienced anything else. It won't take much for people to go back to those cities. Just get some better jobs in some of the rustbelt cities and you will get many people going back to them. Look at the capital region of NY. They gave great tax breaks to sematech and many people have started to move in the area. Look at Columbus. The population has been growing because of good job opportunities. The cities in the northeast are very attractive and people will move back once the jobs start flowing again. They have already made strides in places like Albany, Rochester and Syracuse. You act like some of these places are dying when in reality they are starting to go back on an upswing.

[pepper35]

Over 1,600 people already work at Sematech Albany, and the numbers will be boosted by another 450 jobs over the next few years.

They decided not to move the HQ to NY. It stays in TX. I will say that while 450 jobs is minimal it is a start that could be a springboard.

What I meant was that you say you find new architecture bland and boring because of personal opinion which also happens to be why people move in or out of a city or region.

[pepper35]

I have seen Charlotte grow from a little Nothing town into a mega-tropolis. It CAN NOT and WILL NOT last. No matter how smart you think people are there and no matter how dumb people in NY are.

When did I ever say people in NY were dumb? I did make refenrence to another poster, maybe you, who said there was not good education in NC.

[laughter4141]

Originally Posted by garmin239

No, I find new architecture boring and bland because of personal opinion. Not because I don't have it. I have experienced plenty of other things. I have traveled more places than I can count for work so don't tell me I havent experienced anything else. It won't take much for people to go back to those cities. Just get some better jobs in some of the rustbelt cities and you will get many people going back to them. Look at the capital region of NY. They gave great tax breaks to sematech and many people have started to move in the area. Look at Columbus. The population has been growing because of good job opportunities. The cities in the northeast are very attractive and people will move back once the jobs start flowing again. They have already made strides in places like Albany, Rochester and Syracuse. You act like some of these places are dying when in reality they are starting to go back on an upswing.

I've heard of a few jobs being created in Albany, but what jobs are being created in Rochester & Syracuse? It's funny when new jobs are created, the media makes a big deal so everyone thinks there is an upswing...but really there are like 50 new jobs total, compared to the thousands of grads that come out of school each year.

I do agree with you re: Columbus. And actually, while Pittsburgh is still losing people, that place has really made a nice comeback and growth is noticeable there. I just don't notice much mass growth as I do even in Pgh, Cleveland, or Columbus when I drive around in Syracuse or Rochester. After living in Pittsburgh, I can attest while it isn't NC in terms of jobs created, it has a lot more to offer in regards to jobs than the Buffalo/Syracuse/Rochester corridor.

[garmin239]

Well, U of R is building a research facility that is adding over 500 new jobs. There is also a company taking over a Kodak building that is creating around 500 new jobs averaging around 75k per salary. I'd say thats a good start. There are also small to medium sized "tech" places that are adding a few jobs here and there.

[Redd Jedd]

Originally Posted by garmin239

Buffalo has all of those things.
The things that it doesnt have I would not want. A "modern" downtown? I find new architecture to be extremely boring and bland. Those high end stores I could care less about. In WNY I can get high end european clothing at stores if I wanted to. Buffalo has bars, restaurants, a light rail and airport. Buffalo has lakes, museums sports, etc. To tell you the truth I don't find a "vibrant" feel when I'm in places like Charlotte. I get a cheap bland suburban feel when I'm in a city like that.
I'll take a northeastern city with character and a unique feel over a homogeneous cheaply built area like Charlotte.
Buffalo has all of these things you mention about Charlotte but for some reason you seem to think that newer = better. Newer does not = better.
People are still attracted to Buffalo because it is a unique area with an identity. When Charlotte stops being a hot spot and the jobs and people leave it will be a ghost town since there is not much that gives it an identity. It will happen. Every area has its ups and downs.

What would be the unique character that Buffalo has that other cities do not?