New York's Young People Fleeing the State (Syracuse, Albany: sales, real estate)

[Jason_Els]

Once in a while the local paper, The Times Herald Record, does a good story. Upstate New York's young people are leaving in droves:

In a 10-year period, Orange County lost nearly 13,000 — or 17 percent — of its young adults. Yet in the same decade, the county's population grew by nearly 34,000.

Sullivan County lost 3,500 — or 22 percent — of its young people. Yet the county's population grew by nearly 4,700.

Ulster County lost 8,300 — or 20 percent — of its young adults in the last decade. The county grew by nearly 12,500.

More than half of those young adults leaving our region and state are college graduates, according to a survey conducted for the state by the Business Council of New York. What's worse, only one in five college students in upstate New York plans to stay here.

Or, as 23-year-old Michelle Olson, who left the hamlet of Wallkill for a $45,000-per-year entry-level accounting job in Philadelphia, puts it: "I don't know anyone who's staying." - The Record Online

One of the examples they give is a story we hear time and again. Housing is unaffordable to young people, the taxes are too high, and even if you can find one, Hudson Valley employers don't pay enough to earn a living wage:

Jason Kenyon, 24, wanted to stay in the Hudson Valley. So after graduating from prestigious Vassar College, he began looking for a job, at job fairs, through newspapers and online. He kept looking for more than a year. But all he could find were sales jobs that — at $35,000 per year, including commission — offered little promise for the future.
So, through Vassar networking, he ended up in Chicago, where he works for a reinsurance company.
He earns $50,000 and lives in a building with a doorman in Chicago's most expensive neighborhood. He pays $1,300 per month — "utilities included."
"And taxes are way lower," he said — "27 percent versus 34 in New York." - The Record Online

The problem is so acute that New York's First Lady, Silda Spitzer, has created, "an initiative," to try and discover the reasons and how to stem the brain drain:

All over, she's heard the same sobering refrain: Our future is leaving.

Between 1990 and 2000, the number of people ages 22 to 34 in the state's 52 upstate counties declined by 22 percent. A recent survey of 1,000 SUNY seniors found that more than six in 10 said they wanted to stay in New York, but fewer than three in 10 expected to remain here in a decade.
Now, Wall Spitzer wants to stop the brain drain. The native North Carolinian, former corporate lawyer and mother of three has launched a statewide campaign of her own called "I Live New York."

The initiative aims to raise awareness about the state's vanishing youth, find out why they're leaving and craft a plan to keep them here. - The Record Online

For more insight, check the comments sections for both stories. This is a hot issue and there's not a single comment in disagreement. The problem is particularly tough in Sullivan where half the county's ratable property is in the hands of religious organizations who pay no property tax.

We've got some severe issues in New York and I'm glad The Times Herald Record is finally recognizing what is likely the most severe. I'm sceptical the Mrs. Spitzer's inquisition can do anything as the problems are deeply rooted in how New York is managed in the first place but I hope it raises awareness of this sad but serious issue.

[ontheroad]

Thanks for posting this information. I worked with young people in NYS for about 10 years, and found this very eye-opening. However, when I read these boards, I am wondering if this is a national rather than a regional issue!

[ClarkStreetKid]

Don't worry, the immigrants will fill their places. That's close to the nonsense that Mario Cuomo said back in 1988 when asked about what he would do about NY's young and college graduates leaving the area.

The initiative aims to raise awareness about the state's vanishing youth, find out why they're leaving and craft a plan to keep them here.

The problems with any initiative is it'll never address the real issues. The people of NY, or anywhere really, set the price of housing. People of NY elect those that tax them. And business will always look to get workers at the best price for them. So the solution is simple, elect people who will lower taxes (but be ready for reduced services), sell homes for a reasonable price instead of market (like that'll happen) and make the area desirable for new business.

I doubt any of that will happen now, the same way it didn't happen in '88 sp here's what we did, we moved. We found a great and affordable home, less taxes and employers paying a good wage. My parents and in-laws retired and moved, and found the same things.

I'm sorry but I have to laugh that this is once again surfaced as an issue, as it's been happening for around 2 decades.

The main problems with NY starts with New Yorkers.

[NickL28]

They are all moving to the greater NYC metropolitan area as well as Northern NJ & Long Island. I have to say that the job market in this area has never been better. But you always feel underpaid & behind those who are around your age & have equivalent experience. What are entry level jobs (excluding Wall Street) paying in NYC these days ?? Likely between $50,000 - $75,000 a year .

Upstate NY maybe be losing population and those under 35, but that is not the case in NYC. How people are able to afford market rents of today in NYC I do not know even with entry level salaries of over $50,000 a year.

But I am 28 and have lived in NYC all my life but feel totally out of place with all these new uber trendy materialistic 20 somethings wannabes which is one of the reasons why I am planning on leaving -- as well as the ridiculous & confiscatory cost of living & taxes.

Taxes have been cut but not nearly enough. A good start would be to eliminate the NYC personal income tax for single people making less than $100,000 a year and to maybe cut state income tax in half.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by NickL28

Upstate NY maybe be losing population and those under 35, but that is not the case in NYC.

That's the problem. If it's not happening to NYC.... no one at the State level cares about the issue.

This is the main problem with NYS. New York City takes the attention away from the huge problems elsewhere. NYS is too NYC focused to care about the problems facing Upstate NY.

Mario Cuomo's comment proves my point....."Don't worry, the immigrants will fill their places." That is a NYC centered mind-set. He doesn't care about the places that don't attract many immigrants. For example, immigrants aren't moving to the Syracuse Area...maybe only about 1,000 year. But that doesn't off-set the 2,000 to 5,000 that leave the region every year.

BTW, they aren't all "moving to the greater NYC metropolitan area as well as Northern NJ & Long Island". There was a study done by the Syracuse Post Standard in the 90s. Most people moving away from the Syracuse metro went to Boston, Charlotte, Raleigh, DC, Tampa, Atlanta, and Orlando. The New York City metropolitan area didn't even make the top 10.

[UrbanQuest]

Yeah, and when all those young people settleing in the
"new" cities have kids, their kids will want the hell out of
their bland sunbelt suburbs as well. Can you imagine growing
up in Peoria, AZ and wanting to stay there. ...LOL

[ClarkStreetKid]

Yes, I can.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuest

Yeah, and when all those young people settleing in the
"new" cities have kids, their kids will want the hell out of
their bland sunbelt suburbs as well. Can you imagine growing
up in Peoria, AZ and wanting to stay there. ...LOL

I couldn't. YUCK! What could be better than Scranton, PA?

[Sgoldie]

I don't see this as the disaster a lot of people do. After all, we have a ton of colleges in NYS, thus a lot of college kids graduating. I did, my kids did, and I would encourage any young person to travel around and live elsewhere. That's another way to learn.

I'd rather have them see the world and how things are in other places, come back when they want to raise a family, and bring some of those ideas from elsewhere back here to improve things. There's nothing more boring than someone who's never left town.

Bella does have a very good point. When one of the quickest ways to drive upstate from NYC is to travel through two other states (NJ & PA), when US senators are guaranteed to be from the NYC area (or from other states altogether), when lifestyles between upstate and the NY metrolopitan area are so diametrically different, and with urban residents being completely unaware of the whole of the rest of the state, it makes for a completely disfunctional governing situation.

Nothing made me madder than when Gov Cuomo ran re-election ads from his office showing the Empire State Bldg in the background. Apparently he wasn't aware that our state capital is three hours north of there in Albany. They all do the same thing too. Pataki was better as he had a vacation home on Lake Champlain. We have to help ourselves up here as they're not likely to even know what we need.

[mom2gurls]

Well a major problem with the Hudson Valley area is not only are people leaving, is that he younger people who are choosing to stay, are "born brought up and married in the same town"...They havent, as the Previous Poster "Sgoldie" stated, seen the world. Heck, graduation from high school or a 2 year stint at Dutchess Community college is a HUGE deal. That is something that I have found in alot up here. Then you have the complete other side of the spectrum, people who lucked out, bought during the housing boom (or maybe the height of it), and they came from various areas, the city, westchester, etc etc, because technically the taxes and real estate, while cheaper, are still backbreakers. Mostly upper class, white collar workers who have ties financially to NYC/Westchester/Bergen Counties of NJ.

So you have entire counties suffering from a bedroom community effect of you cannot work and live in the same county--unless you are doctor/dentist/own your own business or have the luxury of telecommuting.

So then what is the incentive for any new employer to really come up here? There really isnt. You have tons of retail stuff opening up with will provide the simple service of convenience for the locals, perhaps some job opps for the people looking..but nothing really solid and concrete to write home about.

Of course then you have the old fuddy duddies, who are in their 50-60's who are fighting the towns for NO economic or residential development, because it promotes the utilization of their open space, the farmers are being pushed out..people dont like the McMansions...etc etc etc. But something has to give. They want the "old" hudson valley, where people moved up here, found a job up here, bought the 70 year old victorian home, with an attitude of "so what if it takes 20 minutes to get to a local CVS..go to Jims Pharmacy instead up the road.


And as sweet as it sounds, the lifestyles of people today arent condusive to that. Something has to give, more industry to intice younger people to stay(or at least come back), affordable real estate, but I dont see that happening--at least anytime soon.