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Old 06-04-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Rochester, NY
1,293 posts, read 2,765,992 times
Reputation: 315
Holy crap, the Pittsford super makes $246,332 a year, it is a great school and all...but??? Whats also staggering is the amount of superintendents. Another reason to consolidate many of these school districts. I can't imagine why we are so broke. How many of these guys took pay raises and bonuses during the recession?
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
4,354 posts, read 4,914,484 times
Reputation: 2903
I literally cannot believe that there are 3 Long Island School Districts where someone makes more than the President of the United States. Must be really tough sitting in an office and being in charge of a couple of elementary schools and a high school!
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:11 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,966,440 times
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One could also argue, easily imo, that District Superintendents actually get more accomplished than our governor.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:33 PM
 
82 posts, read 418,918 times
Reputation: 52
Admin *does* work all year. granted, they get some good vacation time, but...

This is a faulty argument because there are many occupations that pay more than the governor. (I know a guy who runs a pet store who makes more than the governor...)

The issue is not DOLLARS, but COMPENSATION: would administrators work in education if the pay weren't so low?

Do you know that there is a SHORTAGE of administrators?

I'm a teacher, and I HATE my administrators, but I do understand the pay structure.

Think of it this way: what do CEOs of $100-million dollar companies on Long Island make? You are asking these people to run a school district -- a politically-charged $100-million dollar company.

Look, you want people to run your schools?
Either A) find a better way to fund the pay
B) give them a different kind (non-monetary) of compensation
or C) SHARE admins between districts (essentially consolidating districts)

The REAL problem is C. Taxpayers are classist and racist. That's the truth. They are afraid that if their district merges with a neighboring one, the will become more black/minority/poor/trashy/violent/etc. Sooooo, instead, they keep up the walls separating districts, and they pay the cost.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:49 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 4,993,059 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by antipode12 View Post
Admin *does* work all year. granted, they get some good vacation time, but...

This is a faulty argument because there are many occupations that pay more than the governor. (I know a guy who runs a pet store who makes more than the governor...)

The issue is not DOLLARS, but COMPENSATION: would administrators work in education if the pay weren't so low?

Do you know that there is a SHORTAGE of administrators?

I'm a teacher, and I HATE my administrators, but I do understand the pay structure.

Think of it this way: what do CEOs of $100-million dollar companies on Long Island make? You are asking these people to run a school district -- a politically-charged $100-million dollar company.

Look, you want people to run your schools?
Either A) find a better way to fund the pay
B) give them a different kind (non-monetary) of compensation
or C) SHARE admins between districts (essentially consolidating districts)

The REAL problem is C. Taxpayers are classist and racist. That's the truth. They are afraid that if their district merges with a neighboring one, the will become more black/minority/poor/trashy/violent/etc. Sooooo, instead, they keep up the walls separating districts, and they pay the cost.
One of the problems is that there are way too many administrators. We don't need lots of administrators at each school. The compensation packages for these people with benefits included are just too much. I know you have to pay the top brass what they are worth, but you don't need layers and layers of these people. Not to mention the benefits are just not fair to the tax payers.
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:31 PM
 
82 posts, read 418,918 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
One of the problems is that there are way too many administrators. We don't need lots of administrators at each school. The compensation packages for these people with benefits included are just too much. I know you have to pay the top brass what they are worth, but you don't need layers and layers of these people. Not to mention the benefits are just not fair to the tax payers.

The benefits are simply part of the pay.

In economics, there is no such thing as "too much" -- if the market will pay it, it is just right. Communities are willing, so....

Besides, if you lower the salaries (remember -- there is a shortage of admin now) you will have no candidates -- or worse, candidates who can DICTATE the pay.

The other point -- too many admins -- is interesting. It MAY be true. BUT, unless someone has worked in a school, it's hard to say what these admins do all day.
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:34 PM
 
7 posts, read 7,755 times
Reputation: 12
Rockville Centre Union Free Schools Rockville Centre Union Free Schools (Professional) Johnson, William H Ndr $322,108 2009 (Superintendent) makes more than a M.D. and more than a judge.

I thought it was more. Your tax dollars hard at work!

How do we know how hard they work? There's no oversight.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:05 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 4,993,059 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by antipode12 View Post
The benefits are simply part of the pay.

In economics, there is no such thing as "too much" -- if the market will pay it, it is just right. Communities are willing, so....

Besides, if you lower the salaries (remember -- there is a shortage of admin now) you will have no candidates -- or worse, candidates who can DICTATE the pay.

The other point -- too many admins -- is interesting. It MAY be true. BUT, unless someone has worked in a school, it's hard to say what these admins do all day.
lol, an admin shortage? Sounds like union propaganda to me. We have layers and layers of admins, at least upstate, that are useless but collect 6 figure salaries.
The whole market paying the salary point is valid in the private sector. But in the public sector where you get one sided presentation on "vote for the budget or the kids will suffer", it does not apply. Benefits and salary account for over 70% of budgets. When cuts are spoken about, the first thing districts do is cut what effects the children. How about cutting benefits that are way out of line with the private sector? That are very generous and are one of the reasons the state has such a financial problem. We can not keep paying these retirement packages. If communities got the whole picture, maybe things would be different. You don't have to lower salaries by much. Lower salaries by some, cut benefits and lay off administration. There is no way there is a shortage.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:22 PM
 
82 posts, read 418,918 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
lol, an admin shortage? Sounds like union propaganda to me.
Well, your entire point (that we could reduce the pay/benefits of admins) hinges on the assumption of no shortage, so let me address it.

I am a 12th year teacher and I sit on hiring committees for admins. Unless there is a school superintendent on this board, I'm the most "inside" you're gonna get.

There -- sadly -- IS a shortage of applicants for admin positions.

In a neighboring district, they ended up hiring a RETIRED superintendent from NJ because they only had 4 applicants.

In my district, a school began the year without a dept. chair because of so few (and none qualified) applicants.

And this info is generally known throughout schools.

There are several reasons for this:
1) Not enough incentive: for many positions, the increase in pay to become admin is not enough to leave teaching full time, nor enough to work year-round, nor enough to give up their teacher tenure and try to get admin tenure. (And some positions, like principal, requires many "clock hours" which is not justified by the increased pay.)
2) Admins must have a second degree: this is AFTER completing the teaching Masters. By this point, most teachers are exhausted from being in school for 10 years. At that point, they are starting families, etc. Many teachers are coaches, club advisors, union reps, etc., so going back to school is not on the radar.
3) Demographics: because of the baby boom, most teachers were hired in the 70s, and have retired within the last 10 years. Currently, the avg teacher is in his late 20s. Most teachers are too young right now to have reached "admin age". This reduces the pool considerably. I'd imagine in 10-15 years, you'll have a much larger pool again.
4) It's a LEGAL position: many admin positions are less about education, and more about local, state, and federal law, funding, grant money, workplace law, special education law, lawsuits, and compliance. Few teachers WANT to do this kind of work. My lawyer friends make more money than many admins do, and they wanted to do that work from the get-go, so they never went into teaching. Admin draws from teachers, but its not attractive to most teachers. (In my district, I personally know 4 teachers with admin licenses who REFUSE to enter admin.)

Believe me, if there were a flood of applicants, there would be no incentive in the entire world why a district would offer high salaries. (These salaries are negotiated by the admin union; but because there are so few admins in a district, they have little power in negotiating. They can't "hold out" for larger salaries , especially with the public scrutiny on them specifically.)
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:41 AM
 
3,235 posts, read 4,993,059 times
Reputation: 2530
I have to assume you live downstate then? Long Island?
The scenario is the complete opposite upstate, more specifically where I am in the Rochester are.
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