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Old 12-24-2010, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-Cathy View Post
I was wondering what dss meant too, thanks Ryder for clarifying it.

1) Whatever the relationship is, there is no obligation to take care of anyone else's children but be aware that you might not see them very often based upon your/their limitations.

2) I do think you might be unreasonable in not going to see them every once in a while and that you are choosing some of your own exile from these grandkids. While they chose to have too many kids to easily handle, strapping them all in the car to come to your house the majority of the time is an unreasonable expectation on your part IMO.

3) Sorry Ivory but I'm going to call you out on your claim of "no time" because I see that you are doing quite a bit of city-data posting. (8200+ posts in 2.5 years) I know from my very limited involvement, that it takes plenty of time to read and post even a little on here. Time that could be spent seeing your own children or doing what it is that needs to be done so that you feel free to spare some time for those grand-babies, if that is your desire. If it's not your desire, then be honest with yourself. It is unfair to lay the blame wholly on their parents for this estrangement situation however ridiculous it might be for them to breed beyond their capacity to adequately deal, and however unfair their outright or implied demands for you to take the children may be.

So ease up on what seems to be some fairly obvious hostility over the situation, send the teens to stay with friends (or at home if it's just for the day) and get in the car, put up with a little inconvenience on your part and go to see them. If they are at some distance, stay in a hotel so as to not put them out and to give yourself some breathing room and peace at the end of the day. The ball is really in your court.

This advice is meant to be helpful and I am sorry if it offends as I know it might being rather blunt and probably not what you wanted to hear.
LOL. I love when people call out that I post. I spend a lot of time on the computer and I take my breaks checking threads I post on instead of leaving the computer. I also multi task. Right now, I'm baking and getting dinner ready and as I wait for each step to be done, I check on line. You'll find I will post a lot today. Then we'll leave to spend the evening with family.

You will find I will post a lot next week too as I work on my lesson plans and semester finals. Sometimes I need to step away from what I'm doing and go back to it a few minutes later. The break helps. This is my way of taking breaks. I used to smoke. I suppose I probably smoked more cigarettes in the time I've been on City data when I did. Somehow, that's acceptable but taking a break posting isn't. Go figure.

And this accusation is really stupid because I cannot take the 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there that I post and put them together as trips to see the grand kids. If you know a way to assemble time like that, please clue me in. I often have 20 minutes to kill for whatever reason (waiting on one dish to finish up so I can get the other in the oven right now and then start the next) so I post. Do you not get how time works?

And last but not least, I'm ADD. I deal with being ADD by flipping from one activity to another. It is not possible for me to sit down and just write a lesson plan. I need 16 things on my plate. I move through all of them. They all get done. Posting is one of the things on my plate. I like the conversations. I like that they often make me think. I like that I learn things.

So lay off on the number of posts. The 5 minutes it took to type this could not have been used for visiting my grand kids and I can't save it up for a visit later. The fact I post a lot is not proof I have the time to run over there even on a weekly basis and spend a block of time there and then take a grand child or two home for the night (this is what she wants. There's actually a schedule on the refrigerator of which kid is at her mother's which day).

Yes, I post a lot. This is the way I chose to take my breaks and how I choose to spend the few minutes here and there I get throughout the day that I have nothing constructive to fit into. It is illogical, however, to conclude that this means I have loads of time to spend visiting grand kids. 8000+ posts in 2.5 years is fewer than 10 posts a day. If each took 5 minutes, you're not talking an hour a day. Most people watch TV more than I post. Give it a rest.

And yes, you are insulting and it is obvious you intended to be so.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Sunny Florida
7,136 posts, read 10,682,734 times
Reputation: 9448
Ivory, I do not believe you are selfish, wrong, or evil in any way. Your dss and his wife made the decision to have all of those kids and it's their responsibility. You have a demanding career and two kids of your own to raise. You see them when you can and I'm sure no matter what you do it will never be enough for them until you are at their beck and call. Do not fall for their guilt trip and manipulative tactics. Isn't amazing how the holidays bring out the best in people?

Happy Christmas Eve!
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,043 posts, read 20,548,032 times
Reputation: 20399
Quote:
I love my grandkids but I'm struggling with my two and my job. I don't need their kids too. Does this make me selfish?
No. I love my grandkids and wish I could spend everyday with them, but I dont have that luxury either. I would be highly PO'ed if I got an ultimatum like that. My family is close and we have always helped with eachothers children, but in no way does anyone feel it is an obligation to do so.
They should just feel blessed that their children have grandparents that love them.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
Ivory, I do not believe you are selfish, wrong, or evil in any way. Your dss and his wife made the decision to have all of those kids and it's their responsibility. You have a demanding career and two kids of your own to raise. You see them when you can and I'm sure no matter what you do it will never be enough for them until you are at their beck and call. Do not fall for their guilt trip and manipulative tactics. Isn't amazing how the holidays bring out the best in people?

Happy Christmas Eve!
Oh, this has been going on all year. It's been one thing after another since I had to tell ddil (dear daughter in law for those who don't know the acronyms ) to butt out of a situation with my oldest daughter. She declared herself my daughter's "ONLY HOPE" but she was throwing gasoline on a fire and costing us hundreds of dollars in additional counseling and I had to, finally, tell her to leave raising my kids to me. After which she wrote me a really nasty letter telling me what an awful parent I am. Once the dust settled from that, it was that we're lousy grandparents because we don't visit ofetn enough or take the kids often enough.

Before all of this, we had them over for dinner several times a year and attended things like birthday parties for the kids. The only real visiting I did was when my daughers were baby sitting for her, when I dropped them off and picked them up, and when we were invited over. That's another fiasco. Apparently, she had months of resentment building up because my girls didn't leave her house clean enough when they baby sat. I've never figured out why she didn't just say something to me and nip it in the bud if it was such an issue. She never said a word to me about anything amiss. Which I find odd. I would have said something to the mom of my baby sitter if there was an issue.

Personally, I think all of this has to do with the fact that we loaned dss the money for a divorce lawyer when he asked. They ended up not getting divorced, obviously, as they're on baby number 5. She also claims to have been supportive of me when dh and I separated but the only time we ever talked is when I picked the girls up from baby sitting. She never called once. I admit I did not call her, during their separation, but that's because she didn't know dss had filed for divorce and I wasn't going to be the one to tell her. They ended up working things out so that's probably a good thing but, apprently, I was supposed to call her and offer support, like she did for me (in her mind anyway.). I treated her the same way she treated me. I was cordial when I saw her and asked about her and the kids but didn't go out of my way to contact her. Eventually, I would have once dss came clean about having a lawyer but I wasn't going to be the one to spill that. It was his place to tell her not mine and I'm not a good liar.

There's a lot of bad blood here and I'm not sure there is anything I can do right. She would like it if I'd put a schedule on her refrigerator of which kid(s) I'm taking which day but I just really don't have time for that. At least not during the school year. She, usually, travels with the kids during the summer so when I do have the time, they're not here (dss travels for a living and she spends the summer wherever he is).

I'm hoping dss will bring the kids by tomorrow so we can give them their gifts. I'm real close to just starting to mail them out since I never know when I'm going to see the kids next. We went several months this year without seeing them.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-24-2010 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,043 posts, read 20,548,032 times
Reputation: 20399
Oh, the drama of dils and ex dils. I feel for you. Ive still got 10 years left of sentence dealing with my ex dil.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:30 AM
 
Location: N of citrus, S of decent corn
34,678 posts, read 42,823,353 times
Reputation: 57392
No one can take advantage of you without your permission. You are totally right. Now just work on why you seem to feel guilty about it.
I do think you should try to visit them if at all possible, since it is very hard to drag 5 kids anyplace. Also, that way you can leave any time you want, instead of waiting for them to go home. My DH and I would ideally like frequent, short visits with the DGC instead of marathons...like about 2 hours at a time.

Last edited by gentlearts; 12-24-2010 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: maryland
3,967 posts, read 5,684,392 times
Reputation: 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-Cathy View Post
I was wondering what dss meant too, thanks Ryder for clarifying it.

1) Whatever the relationship is, there is no obligation to take care of anyone else's children but be aware that you might not see them very often based upon your/their limitations.

2) I do think you might be unreasonable in not going to see them every once in a while and that you are choosing some of your own exile from these grandkids. While they chose to have too many kids to easily handle, strapping them all in the car to come to your house the majority of the time is an unreasonable expectation on your part IMO.

3) Sorry Ivory but I'm going to call you out on your claim of "no time" because I see that you are doing quite a bit of city-data posting. (8200+ posts in 2.5 years) I know from my very limited involvement, that it takes plenty of time to read and post even a little on here. Time that could be spent seeing your own children or doing what it is that needs to be done so that you feel free to spare some time for those grand-babies, if that is your desire. If it's not your desire, then be honest with yourself. It is unfair to lay the blame wholly on their parents for this estrangement situation however ridiculous it might be for them to breed beyond their capacity to adequately deal, and however unfair their outright or implied demands for you to take the children may be.

So ease up on what seems to be some fairly obvious hostility over the situation, send the teens to stay with friends (or at home if it's just for the day) and get in the car, put up with a little inconvenience on your part and go to see them. If they are at some distance, stay in a hotel so as to not put them out and to give yourself some breathing room and peace at the end of the day. The ball is really in your court.

This advice is meant to be helpful and I am sorry if it offends as I know it might being rather blunt and probably not what you wanted to hear.

Yes that comes to about 8.9 posts a day....it's obvious she is pouring all her time and energy into city data .
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: maryland
3,967 posts, read 5,684,392 times
Reputation: 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Oh, this has been going on all year. It's been one thing after another since I had to tell ddil (dear daughter in law for those who don't know the acronyms ) to butt out of a situation with my oldest daughter. She declared herself my daughter's "ONLY HOPE" but she was throwing gasoline on a fire and costing us hundreds of dollars in additional counseling and I had to, finally, tell her to leave raising my kids to me. After which she wrote me a really nasty letter telling me what an awful parent I am. Once the dust settled from that, it was that we're lousy grandparents because we don't visit ofetn enough or take the kids often enough.

Before all of this, we had them over for dinner several times a year and attended things like birthday parties for the kids. The only real visiting I did was when my daughers were baby sitting for her, when I dropped them off and picked them up, and when we were invited over. That's another fiasco. Apparently, she had months of resentment building up because my girls didn't leave her house clean enough when they baby sat. I've never figured out why she didn't just say something to me and nip it in the bud if it was such an issue. She never said a word to me about anything amiss. Which I find odd. I would have said something to the mom of my baby sitter if there was an issue.

Personally, I think all of this has to do with the fact that we loaned dss the money for a divorce lawyer when he asked. They ended up not getting divorced, obviously, as they're on baby number 5. She also claims to have been supportive of me when dh and I separated but the only time we ever talked is when I picked the girls up from baby sitting. She never called once. I admit I did not call her, during their separation, but that's because she didn't know dss had filed for divorce and I wasn't going to be the one to tell her. They ended up working things out so that's probably a good thing but, apprently, I was supposed to call her and offer support, like she did for me (in her mind anyway.). I treated her the same way she treated me. I was cordial when I saw her and asked about her and the kids but didn't go out of my way to contact her. Eventually, I would have once dss came clean about having a lawyer but I wasn't going to be the one to spill that. It was his place to tell her not mine and I'm not a good liar.

There's a lot of bad blood here and I'm not sure there is anything I can do right. She would like it if I'd put a schedule on her refrigerator of which kid(s) I'm taking which day but I just really don't have time for that. At least not during the school year. She, usually, travels with the kids during the summer so when I do have the time, they're not here (dss travels for a living and she spends the summer wherever he is).

I'm hoping dss will bring the kids by tomorrow so we can give them their gifts. I'm real close to just starting to mail them out since I never know when I'm going to see the kids next. We went several months this year without seeing them.
The sad fact is your son goes along with her and doesn't stand up for himself.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: maryland
3,967 posts, read 5,684,392 times
Reputation: 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I have a situation with dss and his wife. She's a stay at home mom who is pregnant with their 5th child. Her mom is retired and spends a lot of time with the kids (she has nothing better to do) whereas, I have a full time job and two teenagers at home so I see the kids when they come and visit. Anyway, they've decided we're lousy grandparents because we don't come and take the kids and we expect them to visit us instead of us visiting them and now we're, pretty much, cut off from seeing the grand kids. They're trying to force me to choose between not seeing the grand kids or taking them off their hands frequently and with her pregnant, I'm really on their **** list. I have NO time during the school year. I barely see my own kids.

Here's my take. I, simply, do not have the energy or the time to be taking their kids with any frequency. I have enough on my plate with my own two and my career. Plus, they're the ones who decided to have 5 kids (they want 6). So, if you choose to have more kids than you can handle, does family owe it to you to help you out? There's a reason I stopped at two. A good one. I do not need their four on top of my two.

I love my grandkids but I'm struggling with my two and my job. I don't need their kids too. Does this make me selfish?
No you don't own them that as you have your own life to lead. It's obvious that they expect extended family to help them because financially they really should not have that many kids....but as the other person said no one forced them to have that many children.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
No one can take advantage of you without your permission. You are totally right. Now just work on why you seem to feel guilty about it.
I do think you should try to visit them if at all possible, since it is very hard to drag 5 kids anyplace. Also, that way you can leave any time you want, instead of waiting for them to go home. My DH and I would ideally like frequent, short visits with the DGC instead of marathons...like about 2 hours at a time.
What I feel guilty about is not seeing the grandkids. It's her way or the highway. If she were not family, she's not someone I'd have anything to do with BUT those kids are my grandkids (well my step grand kids and dh's grand kids). She's making it my fault we never see them. I'd love to write her off but I don't want to write off the kids. I'd still like to see them. I'd love to go back to having them over for dinner several times a year and getting invited to birthday parties. That's really the extent I want to be involved though because I have my own kids to raise and I have my career.

As for visiting, that's off the table right now. I'm permitted to take the kids but I've been told I'm not welcome in her home. She told dh that any relationship I have with her kids will be through dss, who is only home about twice a month. Offers to take the kids are welcome, however, those have to be on a rotating schedule so every child has the same amount of time with grandparents.

Seriously, I really don't see what dss sees in her. She's alienated him from his parents, his friends and his extended family. He no longer attends family functions and never sees my brother, who he grew up with. The drama is so bad that he's been known to go back to the job site early. He was supposed to bring the kids by the Saturday after Thanksgiving for a Thanksgiving dinner but got so ticked off with her on Friday that he drove back to the job site two days early.
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